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Index » Radio Paradise/General » General Discussion » Trump Page: 1, 2, 3 ... 1116, 1117, 1118  Next
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NoEnzLefttoSplit

NoEnzLefttoSplit Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 21, 2024 - 11:38pm

 islander wrote:

I'm honestly a bit sad that I wasn't namechecked under 'rich authoritarian elites'. 




ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 21, 2024 - 7:48pm

 VV wrote:

Watch how you address me, or I’ll have my people kick you off the internet. Now where did I leave my cognac snifter?


Next to your mother-of-pearl snuff box and matching monocle. Again. 

VV

VV Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 21, 2024 - 6:58pm

 islander wrote:

I'm honestly a bit sad that I wasn't namechecked under 'rich authoritarian elites'. 

remember where you came from though, you will always be riff-raff to us.


Watch how you address me, or I’ll have my people kick you off the internet. Now where did I leave my cognac snifter?

Coaxial

Coaxial Avatar

Location: Comfortably numb in So Texas
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 21, 2024 - 6:09pm

 islander wrote:
 VV wrote:

I'm a Rockefeller now?   ...cool. 

I'm honestly a bit sad that I wasn't namechecked under 'rich authoritarian elites'.  remember where you came from though, you will always be riff-raff to us.
 
+1
islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 21, 2024 - 6:02pm

 VV wrote:

I'm a Rockefeller now?  


...cool. 



I'm honestly a bit sad that I wasn't namechecked under 'rich authoritarian elites'. 

remember where you came from though, you will always be riff-raff to us.

oldviolin

oldviolin Avatar

Location: esse quam videri
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 21, 2024 - 5:26pm

 Bill_J wrote:
 VV wrote:

I'm a Rockefeller now?   ...cool. 
Oysters all around!
 
The Andy Griffith Show — Season 3, Episode 11
Bill_J

Bill_J Avatar



Posted: Feb 21, 2024 - 5:03pm

 VV wrote:

I'm a Rockefeller now?  


...cool. 




Oysters all around!
VV

VV Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 21, 2024 - 4:17pm

 kurtster wrote:
The blue blood Nelson Rockefeller types (rgio and VV being prime examples) have gone to the dems, which now is the party of the rich authoritarian elites being run by the Progressive branch of the party.

I'm a Rockefeller now?  

...cool. 

VV

VV Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 21, 2024 - 6:30am

 rgio wrote:
In 2016, a friend of mine suggested that Trump voters are selfish, stupid, and/or racist.  At this point, MAGA is an amalgamation of all three.

You forgot ignorant
  
There's run-of-the-mill ignorance and willful ignorance.
 
The second one is much more dangerous.

rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 21, 2024 - 5:00am

 haresfur wrote:
I actually take you at your word that Trump gave a voice to his supporters (leaving aside whether they actually were ignored previously. You think so, fair enough). I now wonder what your voice is actually saying? From what I can see it is close the borders at all costs, including separating children from their families. Banning abortion rights to the point of bans even if carrying a foetus to term will kill the mother. Supporting authoritarian regimes around the world as long as it increases trump's power. Encouraging violent extremist groups (the ones I'm actually fine with calling racist xenophobes because that's what they say they are) if it supports his (your) agenda. Did I miss anything?


I think that's the question, but the positions aren't nearly as stark as you suggest.

They want the border closed, but primarily because they despise the idea that the US government supports migrants when they don't support the people already here.  It's an anger toward government.  Ignore the fact that most don't want the government to help them... they don't want their dollars supporting people who aren't here.  That expands to NATO, Ukraine, and the rest of the world now, and ignores the financial realities that our supporting others drives a lot of our economy.  90% of Ukraine's aid stays in the US.  It's jobs and economic opportunity HERE... with the added benefit of supporting an ally without anyone in our military firing a weapon.  

Abortion is the dog that caught the car.  It was easy to support a fetus' right to survive because it signaled you're a good person... and didn't mean much.  Nobody thought Roe would be overturned in any state in the US, so it was proof you were a caring human being... until it wasn't.  This is part of the "gospel", but it was around long before MAGA.  It's a timing coincidence that collided with McConnell, RBG, and Trump.  It's election kryptonite.  

Supporting Putin seems personal for Trump.  It's Saudi Arabia too.  Any country where he's borrowed money is full of brilliant, great people. The MAGA support who Trump supports, and now MAGA find themselves in the uncomfortable position of supporting oligarchs.  Kurt, for example, completely ignores questions on Putin and Navalny right now.  I suggest he knows how insane the position is... but isn't going to break ranks and admit anything given the room is full of never-Trumpers. 

Extremists are overwhelmingly white, and white people feel like they're under attack.  BLM, affirmative action, DEI... MAGA hates any conversation that supports non-whites so much that they stopped teaching history.  Trump supports white grievance.

Then Fox News drives ratings by exploiting all of these issues.  If you feel left behind, a government lack of support, God's pull through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, or are tired of being "the bad guy" for being white... Fox can tell you who to blame.   It's a group of elite, well-educated, wealthy liberals who prefer everyone else over you.  To resist, you need to rally behind a criminal who promises to be "your retribution".

In 2016, a friend of mine suggested that Trump voters are selfish, stupid, and/or racist.  At this point, MAGA is an amalgamation of all three.
haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 20, 2024 - 6:47pm

 kurtster wrote:


The republican party is now the party of the working class, which Obama effectively threw out of the democrat party during his term. You know, all those white folks that cling to their guns and bibles. Not the first time a reversal has happened , but that is what has happened with Trump's takeover of the party. Old Kennedy working class type democrats have found a new home in the repub party. The blue blood Nelson Rockefeller types (rgio and VV being prime examples) have gone to the dems, which now is the party of the rich authoritarian elites being run by the Progressive branch of the party.

Trump gave a voice to those who have been totally ignored by the establishment of both parties (which are essentially opposite sides of the same coin). The establishment being the globalist, open border, offshore jobs agenda standard bearers. I see below that you are still a wide open border advocate as you have just redenounced Trump's border policies again. You all put foreigners in front of Americans and in doing so call those who object, racist xenophobes, which is demeaning, insulting and untrue. That is where the divide begins and apparently ends.

You and most others have a totally distorted idea of exactly who Trump supporters are and why they are. You listen to your news feeds and not those who are the ones you claim to understand and call delusional in so many words. You do not want to understand the actual concerns since you disagree with them so completely. In your case, you cannot get past the objection to having open borders like you insist on.

I have tried to be enlightening over the years but it is fruitless since most just want to beat up the messenger, and any messenger (not just me) that tries to offer up explanations of certain POV's that you all find incomprehensible based on your own ideologies and POV's. We have all been summarily dismissed as members of a cult as opposed to those with legitimate grievances. Insult us into seeing things your way is your method. Howze that working for ya ?



I actually take you at your word that Trump gave a voice to his supporters (leaving aside whether they actually were ignored previously. You think so, fair enough). I now wonder what your voice is actually saying? From what I can see it is close the borders at all costs, including separating children from their families. Banning abortion rights to the point of bans even if carrying a foetus to term will kill the mother. Supporting authoritarian regimes around the world as long as it increases trump's power. Encouraging violent extremist groups (the ones I'm actually fine with calling racist xenophobes because that's what they say they are) if it supports his (your) agenda. Did I miss anything?

kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Feb 20, 2024 - 6:27pm

Well said, Lazy8. 

Kurt, if I told you that the southern US border was well under our control and you posted evidence countering or rebutting my relaxed attitude, wouldn't you expect me to at least dig deeper into the issue? Maybe even reconsider what I'd written? That actually happened. It took me a while but I woke up to you what you were saying. 

We're all really busy here. We grab the news and try to make sense of what it means based on what we've learned or realized beforehand. It's easy to build up a view of the world without looking too hard at it and then accept claims that support that world view—eg, everything's perfectly fine at the border. 

Unfortunately, that can lead to truthiness. We believe in something even though the facts contradict it. But we're all adults and we're supposed to be active participants in a form of democracy working in a fact-based world.  

So back up your take on the world. You've had some success doing it before. No, you're not going to convert me to Trumpism and I'm not going to sway you to vote for a Democrat. But we can better understand the other guy's point of view and we won't feel disrespected so much or like we're shouting at a wall. 
Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 20, 2024 - 3:31pm

 kurtster wrote:
I have tried to be enlightening over the years but it is fruitless since most just want to beat up the messenger, and any messenger (not just me) that tries to offer up explanations of certain POV's that you all find incomprehensible based on your own ideologies and POV's. We have all been summarily dismissed as members of a cult as opposed to those with legitimate grievances. Insult us into seeing things your way is your method. Howze that working for ya ?

Try this: look past your sense of grievance and engage on actual issues.

Our descendants won't care that we feel justified taking some measure because someone was mean to us, they'll judge us based on what actually happened.

Was the measure justified, not on the basis of who opposed it but on its effectiveness at addressing the issue and the rule of law?

Were its unintended consequences bad enough to render it the wrong choice?

Was the issue it was meant to address even real?

If you can't engage on that basis then you are in a cult, a cult full of spoiled children throwing a massive tantrum at the rest of the country looking to enact policies based on who it pisses off.

And you forget where I live. I am awash in MAGA friends and neighbors; one just down the street is still flying a Trump 2020 flag. I'm willing to engage with them respectfully if they want to talk about issues, and we work together on common causes all the time. I'll be tabling at a gun show next month and we'll have lots to talk about. Most of them will engage on other issues (immigration comes readily to mind) without just chanting slogans at me.

So argue the issues, as passionately as you like. Be prepared to talk to people who disagree. Yes, some of them will be assholes (and that's on them) but it doesn't make them wrong any more than Trump being all...Trump makes him wrong.
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 20, 2024 - 3:17pm

 kcar wrote:
  But please, tell us with evidence Obviously , you see things differently. But you only offere sweeping generalizations—"Biden's left the southern border wide open"—that don't stand up and often aren't supported by any evidence. So yes, you get dismissed and disrespected.  But rather mention yet again how you're disrespected, why don't you just voice your take on the economy and social issues clearly, with evidence? 

You're not going to change people's minds about Trump but you might make them have a better ability to understand GOP policy. These days, personally, I don't what the party is doing independent of Trump...
 
You ask for evidence for my opinion ?  You got all the evidence you're gonna get.  All's you're going to do is tell me I'm wrong anyway.

It's my opinion based upon my own thoughts accumulated during the last 71 trips around the sun.  I am capable of my own independent thinking just to let you know.  If you have seen any of what I expressed, the way I have expressed it some place where I can parrot it from, let me know.

That you think that the border is under control is not even close to anything I see.

And once more you ask for evidence.  Once again there is no evidence I can provide you that you will accept. You will disagree with everything and will find something to support your position, so knock yourself out.

I'm not trying to change anyone here, minds. 'Tis impossible.  Not even trying.  It's all a just saying thing and will be considered in the same way that anything possibly related in the loosest possible way to anything MAGA, as nothing more than blind obedience originating from a cult mentality.

See if you can change my mind on that ...

Disrespected ?  Here ?  Did I say that exactly or are you just trying to put words in my mouth ?  Then again, ask me if I care.

Say hi to Ronald !

Just another day in paradise ...
kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Feb 20, 2024 - 2:19pm

HEY BEAKER! GFY



Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 20, 2024 - 12:45pm

 Beaker wrote:






Beaker

Beaker Avatar

Location: Your safe space


Posted: Feb 20, 2024 - 12:36pm

 kcar wrote:

"I see below that you are still a wide open border advocate as you have just redenounced Trump's border policies again. You all put foreigners in front of Americans and in doing so call those who object, racist xenophobes, which is demeaning, insulting and untrue. "

Oh, did/does Trump have a border policy? I have to ask beecause he killed one of the strongest bipartisan bills seeking to restrict illegal immigration and reform the entire immigration system. You know, the one endorsed by the Border Patrol. Trump killed it because he didn't want to let Biden have a "win" before an upcoming election. 

As for your claim that the Democrats have abandoned the working class in favor of globalist elites, I suppose the basis for that claim falls into two camps—one based no the economy,  the other on social issues. So for the first concern, can you point us to data demonstrating that working class employment has fallen under Biden? Are wages rising or falling for this group? My guess is that working class wages have not risen as quickly as white-collar wages, in part because of inflation. But even your beloved FNC (see what I did there Kurt ) is stating that the economy is quite strong and inflation in the US—lower than other comparable national economies—is falling. 

But please, tell us with evidence how the Democrats have left the working class behind. It would be great if you could show us how the Republicans have done much  if anything to lift up the working class. And no, Trump's tax cuts which skewed in favor of the richest 1% don't count. And Democratic immigration policy isn't screwing the working class over either. The CBO recently released a study projecting that immigration will add $7 trillion to the US economy over the next ten years—$1 trillion in government revenue over the same period. Immigration grows the US economy and keeps our economic productivity up. 
 
As for you other concern==social issues—the Democratic party is a big tent party. It represents a broad spectrum of individuals.  The party is trying to give marginalized groups equal civil rights protections and support social acceptance of those groups. I fail to see how these efforts are putting working class people at a disadvantage or in a second=place spot. 

Obviously , you see things differently. But you only offere sweeping generalizations—"Biden's left the southern border wide open"—that don't stand up and often aren't supported by any evidence. So yes, you get dismissed and disrespected. 

But rather mention yet again how you're disrespected, why don't you just voice your take on the economy and social issues clearly, with evidence? You're not going to change people's minds about Trump but you might make them have a better ability to understand GOP policy. These days, personally, I don't what the party is doing independent of Trump...



kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Feb 20, 2024 - 12:23pm

 kurtster wrote:


"I see below that you are still a wide open border advocate as you have just redenounced Trump's border policies again. You all put foreigners in front of Americans and in doing so call those who object, racist xenophobes, which is demeaning, insulting and untrue. "

Oh, did/does Trump have a border policy? I have to ask beecause he killed one of the strongest bipartisan bills seeking to restrict illegal immigration and reform the entire immigration system. You know, the one endorsed by the Border Patrol. Trump killed it because he didn't want to let Biden have a "win" before an upcoming election. 

As for your claim that the Democrats have abandoned the working class in favor of globalist elites, I suppose the basis for that claim falls into two camps—one based no the economy,  the other on social issues. So for the first concern, can you point us to data demonstrating that working class employment has fallen under Biden? Are wages rising or falling for this group? My guess is that working class wages have not risen as quickly as white-collar wages, in part because of inflation. But even your beloved FNC (see what I did there Kurt ) is stating that the economy is quite strong and inflation in the US—lower than other comparable national economies—is falling. 

But please, tell us with evidence how the Democrats have left the working class behind. It would be great if you could show us how the Republicans have done much  if anything to lift up the working class. And no, Trump's tax cuts which skewed in favor of the richest 1% don't count. And Democratic immigration policy isn't screwing the working class over either. The CBO recently released a study projecting that immigration will add $7 trillion to the US economy over the next ten years—$1 trillion in government revenue over the same period. Immigration grows the US economy and keeps our economic productivity up. 
 
As for you other concern==social issues—the Democratic party is a big tent party. It represents a broad spectrum of individuals.  The party is trying to give marginalized groups equal civil rights protections and support social acceptance of those groups. I fail to see how these efforts are putting working class people at a disadvantage or in a second=place spot. 

Obviously , you see things differently. But you only offere sweeping generalizations—"Biden's left the southern border wide open"—that don't stand up and often aren't supported by any evidence. So yes, you get dismissed and disrespected. 

But rather mention yet again how you're disrespected, why don't you just voice your take on the economy and social issues clearly, with evidence? You're not going to change people's minds about Trump but you might make them have a better ability to understand GOP policy. These days, personally, I don't what the party is doing independent of Trump...
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 20, 2024 - 10:04am

 Lazy8 wrote:
 kurtster wrote:
Why ?  You and quite frankly most others here want to see the GOP crushed and put out of business.

Too late. Yer boy and his sycophantic followers already accomplished this. As a political entity capable of proposing solutions to problems, governing, or even acting as credible opposition it is a spent force until (at least) its figurehead is forgotten. It has been reduced to a personality cult for a very unpleasant personality. It didn't even offer a platform in 2020. No agenda, just whatever popped out of Trump's twitter account. This is eerily similar to the Italian Fascist slogan: "Mussolini is always right." As a blueprint for governing this is utterly bankrupt. What's more, Trump is an old man with not-particularly-healthy habits, and notoriously disloyal to those who put him in power. He isn't grooming successors or building an ideology. The party that devotes itself to him will not survive him. None of this was unpredictable. During the 2016 campaign his loudest supporters, when asked if the party they had joined would survive the takeover expressed indifference. The party was a tool to gain power, nothing more. If it wasn't useful to their agenda it deserved to go extinct. And it may. Even when it was tied to the fortunes of Richard Nixon (and wandered in the wilderness for a presidential term, losing elections at every level) it still had diverse voices within it and it still had something to say. That diversity has been driven out. You could find Nixon repellent—even vote for his impeachment—and remain a Republican in 1973. If you criticize the Dear Leader now you are out. So congratulations! Your hero has so tainted the party that the ship will go down with the captain.
 
The republican party is now the party of the working class, which Obama effectively threw out of the democrat party during his term.  You know, all those white folks that cling to their guns and bibles.  Not the first time a reversal has happened , but that is what has happened with Trump's takeover of the party.  Old Kennedy working class type democrats have found a new home in the repub party.  The blue blood Nelson Rockefeller types (rgio and VV being prime examples) have gone to the dems, which now is the party of the rich authoritarian elites being run by the Progressive branch of the party.

Trump gave a voice to those who have been totally ignored by the establishment of both parties (which are essentially opposite sides of the same coin).  The establishment being the globalist, open border, offshore jobs agenda standard bearers.  I see below that you are still a wide open border advocate as you have just redenounced Trump's border policies again.  You all put foreigners in front of Americans and in doing so call those who object, racist xenophobes, which is demeaning, insulting and untrue.  That is where the divide begins and apparently ends.

You and most others have a totally distorted idea of exactly who Trump supporters are and why they are.  You listen to your news feeds and not those who are the ones you claim to understand and call delusional in so many words.  You do not want to understand the actual concerns since you disagree with them so completely.  In your case, you cannot get past the objection to having open borders like you insist on.

I have tried to be enlightening over the years but it is fruitless since most just want to beat up the messenger, and any messenger (not just me) that tries to offer up explanations of certain POV's that you all find incomprehensible based on your own ideologies and POV's.  We have all been summarily dismissed as members of a cult as opposed to those with legitimate grievances.  Insult us into seeing things your way is your method.  Howze that working for ya ?
Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 20, 2024 - 10:02am

 Bill_J wrote:
With regard to the justices, Trump really didn't actually have much to do with that. Those justices as far as I understand it were hand-picked by the Federalist Society and were just waiting for a republican president to take office. The president makes the nomination, but he didn't really pick them. In Trump's case I'm confident that he had no idea who those people were.

Exactly. I think this deal was to placate the rational wing of the GOP.

Now that wing has been driven out. Not sure what that implies for the future of the court.
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