Sufjan Stevens — The Predatory Wasp of the Pallisades is Out to Get Us!
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Thinking outrageously I write in cursive
I hide in my bed with the lights on the floor
Wearing three layers of coats and leg warmers
I see my own breath on the face of the door
Oh I am not quite sleeping
Oh I am fast in bed
There on the wall in the bedroom creeping
I see a wasp with her wings outstretched
North of Savanna we swim in the palisades
I come out wearing my brother's red hat
There on his shoulder my best friend is bit seven times
He runs washing his face in his hands
Oh how I meant to tease him
Oh how I meant no harm
Touching his back with my hand I kiss him
I see the wasp on the length of my arm
Oh great sights upon this state! Hallelu-
Wonders bright, and rivers, lake. Hallelu-
Trail of Tears and Horseshoe Lake. Hallelu-
trusting things beyond mistake. Hallelu-
We were in love. We were in love.
Palisades! Palisades! Palisades
I can wait. I can wait.
Lamb of God, we sound the horn.
Hallelujah!
To us your ghost is born.
Hallelu-
I can't explain the state that I'm in
The state of my heart, he was my best friend
Into the car, from the back seat
Oh admiration in falling asleep
All of my powers, day after day
I can tell you, we swaggered and swayed
Deep in the tower, the prairies below
I can tell you, the telling gets old
Terrible sting and terrible storm
I can tell you the day we were born
My friend is gone, he ran away
I can tell you, I love him each day
Though we have sparred, wrestled and raged
I can tell you I love him each day
Terrible sting, terrible storm
I can tell you...
I hide in my bed with the lights on the floor
Wearing three layers of coats and leg warmers
I see my own breath on the face of the door
Oh I am not quite sleeping
Oh I am fast in bed
There on the wall in the bedroom creeping
I see a wasp with her wings outstretched
North of Savanna we swim in the palisades
I come out wearing my brother's red hat
There on his shoulder my best friend is bit seven times
He runs washing his face in his hands
Oh how I meant to tease him
Oh how I meant no harm
Touching his back with my hand I kiss him
I see the wasp on the length of my arm
Oh great sights upon this state! Hallelu-
Wonders bright, and rivers, lake. Hallelu-
Trail of Tears and Horseshoe Lake. Hallelu-
trusting things beyond mistake. Hallelu-
We were in love. We were in love.
Palisades! Palisades! Palisades
I can wait. I can wait.
Lamb of God, we sound the horn.
Hallelujah!
To us your ghost is born.
Hallelu-
I can't explain the state that I'm in
The state of my heart, he was my best friend
Into the car, from the back seat
Oh admiration in falling asleep
All of my powers, day after day
I can tell you, we swaggered and swayed
Deep in the tower, the prairies below
I can tell you, the telling gets old
Terrible sting and terrible storm
I can tell you the day we were born
My friend is gone, he ran away
I can tell you, I love him each day
Though we have sparred, wrestled and raged
I can tell you I love him each day
Terrible sting, terrible storm
I can tell you...
Comments (136)add comment
Wow lots of Sufjan hate around RP! Saw him in a small venue in Philly a few years back and he was mesmerizing. His voice was absolutely spot on, even better than the recordings. I would love to hear him played more!
keemun wrote:
His usual tripe.
hehe! made me chuckle... Even though I do like this guy's stuff.
maxmox wrote:
OK, back to the song in question: 
Oh I love 'pseudo conflicted'!!! Is that like an existential crisis?
What part of "pseudo" don't you understand?
OK, back to the song in question:
maxmox wrote:
Oh I love 'pseudo conflicted'!!! Is that like an existential crisis?
Emo Poseur?
His usual tripe.
Kilroy wrote:
This song is awful. I can't stand the smug, pseudo-conflicted whining. Please stop playing......
Oh I love 'pseudo conflicted'!!! Is that like an existential crisis?
The wind section Sounds like it is influenced by philip glass.
Which is a bad thing.
...I am tiring of this quickly...from a 5 to a 3...
This song is awful. I can't stand the smug, pseudo-conflicted whining. Please stop playing......
man... that was so annoying it woke me up
A new one from Sufjan; same voice and lyrics that make me queasy. 
i love sufjan! this man is a genious - the imagery in his lyrics are so powerful.
I'll take that apology back. Tedious and sophomoric are not my idea of entertaining.
ahoylola wrote:
No apology necessary. It's entertaining really. And, point well taken. :)
ahoylola wrote:
Oops. I stumbled in to the vandal and ploafmaster forum. (backing away)
Point noted. (exits thread)
ploafmaster wrote:
Alright...my apologies...I'm just as guilty for dominating this board, but I'm certainly not the only person on this site who responds to direct comments for extended periods of time. And considering the subject of vandal's and my comments, I think it stayed relevant to the artist.
No apology necessary. It's entertaining really. And, point well taken. :)
ahoylola wrote:
Oops. I stumbled in to the vandal and ploafmaster forum. (backing away)
Alright...my apologies...I'm just as guilty for dominating this board, but I'm certainly not the only person on this site who responds to direct comments for extended periods of time. And considering the subject of vandal's and my comments, I think it stayed relevant to the artist.
vandal wrote:
I think that it is you who might be confused. Since you weren't at the festival, you couldn't possibly know that the crowd there was about as far from top-40 as they could be. They were savvy enough to recognize a poseur when they saw one.
Objectivity? What would that be like? Would that be like your consistent attempts to legitimize the pathetic excuse for music suffyawn is busily foisting onto a vapid audience of spongeheads?
You're rapidly becoming a suffyawn apologist. You need to flush out your headgear and realize that the sun neither rises nor sets on suffyawn. The guy is a trendy hack and his 15 minutes will be over soon. Enjoy it while you can.
OOOOHHH SNAP!
Ok, as a deversion from the snarking...
I like this song because of the layers. Much like a Steven Sondhiem musical, this song and album take a few listens to sink in. And, it's not for everybody. To each his/her own.
I also think it would be fun to perform this music.
wally42 wrote:
I'm with you - keepin' my head low!
Oops. I stumbled in to the vandal and ploafmaster forum. (backing away)
It was the comment of yours before my last one that was insulting. And you insulted me further in the comment before this. "Grow up," "flush your headgear," etc. are insulting statements. I don't think that's being oversensitive - I think it's obvious. And that's all the time I have to waste on you on this thread.
vandal wrote:
Did we tap into some sort of personal insecurity of yours? I've re-read my comments and can't find any personal insult directed toward you. I think that you can dish out the clever comments but you can't take them.
This thread was supposed to be a debate based upon my dislike for suffyawn, you've personalized it and turned it into a discussion about you.
grow up
ploafmaster wrote:
I'm just trying to be a rational voice. Now you've crossed the line from merely insulting a musician to insulting me. Apologist? Hardly. And you're clearly not reading correctly, or reading to much into my comments. Never did I insinuate that the crowd were friends of the top 40. I used what's called, "an example."
Did we tap into some sort of personal insecurity of yours? I've re-read my comments and can't find any personal insult directed toward you. I think that you can dish out the clever comments but you can't take them.
This thread was supposed to be a debate based upon my dislike for suffyawn, you've personalized it and turned it into a discussion about you.
grow up
I'm just trying to be a rational voice. Now you've crossed the line from merely insulting a musician to insulting me. Apologist? Hardly. And you're clearly not reading correctly, or reading to much into my comments. Never did I insinuate that the crowd were friends of the top 40. I used what's called, "an example."
vandal wrote:
I think that it is you who might be confused. Since you weren't at the festival, you couldn't possibly know that the crowd there was about as far from top-40 as they could be. They were savvy enough to recognize a poseur when they saw one.
Objectivity? What would that be like? Would that be like your consistent attempts to legitimize the pathetic excuse for music suffyawn is busily foisting onto a vapid audience of spongeheads?
You're rapidly becoming a suffyawn apologist. You need to flush out your headgear and realize that the sun neither rises nor sets on suffyawn. The guy is a trendy hack and his 15 minutes will be over soon. Enjoy it while you can.
ploafmaster wrote:
Never confuse group opinion with rightness. After all, loads of people buy top 40 drivel. That doesn't make it good just because a lot of people agree.
And incidentally, you're using hostile language about a musician you don't like. I'm just trying to clarify the use of certain words. I'm not trying to rip on you for disliking SUFJAN, you're allowed to. It's you attempts to posit your opinion as objective musical criticism that rubbed me the wrong way.
I think that it is you who might be confused. Since you weren't at the festival, you couldn't possibly know that the crowd there was about as far from top-40 as they could be. They were savvy enough to recognize a poseur when they saw one.
Objectivity? What would that be like? Would that be like your consistent attempts to legitimize the pathetic excuse for music suffyawn is busily foisting onto a vapid audience of spongeheads?
You're rapidly becoming a suffyawn apologist. You need to flush out your headgear and realize that the sun neither rises nor sets on suffyawn. The guy is a trendy hack and his 15 minutes will be over soon. Enjoy it while you can.
Never confuse group opinion with rightness. After all, loads of people buy top 40 drivel. That doesn't make it good just because a lot of people agree.
And incidentally, you're using hostile language about a musician you don't like. I'm just trying to clarify the use of certain words. I'm not trying to rip on you for disliking SUFJAN, you're allowed to. It's you attempts to posit your opinion as objective musical criticism that rubbed me the wrong way.
vandal wrote:
By the way, I wasn't the only one who was bored, hundreds of us left after 2-3 songs to go watch Stephen Malkmus & The Jicks on the Wookie stage. We returned to see Iron & Wine only after suffyawn limped off the main stage.
ploafmaster wrote:
You certainly don't have to like him, but you're claiming he's pretentious and self-gratifying in his performance - that's purely your reaction, mistaking heavy ornamentation for intentional showiness. And how would you know that he's being self-gratifying, just because you were bored?
Of course that was my reaction, just as yours is to defend him; which is odd since you probably weren't at Sasquatch last summer to see him.
His "ornamentation" as you so quaintly put it, had nothing to do with my conclusion that he was pretentious. Nor did his "intentional showiness" lend itself to that finding. His pretentiousness was a result of the pompous posturing and blatant self promotion to which he subjected the audience between songs. It wasn't enough that he followed a rocking set by Gomez with his bland drivel but he obviously felt compelled to shill for it and spent a lot of time telling the audience on what great CDs this crap was recorded.
So my counter to you is to suggest this: unless you were there to evaluate his performance personally and offer an informed opinion based upon your observations, then perhaps you need to consider the possibility that you don't know what you're talking about.
By the way, I wasn't the only one who was bored, hundreds of us left after 2-3 songs to go watch Stephen Malkmus & The Jicks on the Wookie stage. We returned to see Iron & Wine only after suffyawn limped off the main stage.
You certainly don't have to like him, but you're claiming he's pretentious and self-gratifying in his performance - that's purely your reaction, mistaking heavy ornamentation for intentional showiness. And how would you know that he's being self-gratifying, just because you were bored?
vandal wrote:
I've seen him live, I've purchased and repeatedly listened to two suffyawn CDs (Illinoise & Greetings from Michigan: The Great Lakes State); his music is contrived, weak, and thin. His live performance was pretentious and filled with a large number of boring self gratifying moments.
I don't like suffyawn and I humbly disagree with you.
ploafmaster wrote:
Complex for complexity's sake? Not really, the guy just likes orchestration. If you've ever read one of his interviews, he comes off as pretty humble (if not self-deprecating) about his material. Not pompous, or "pretentious" as so many might say.
Over-hyped/overrated? Those are completely subjective, and even if both were true, neither would be the fault of the artist. Nor do such attributes mean the music is bad - just maybe not worth the acclaim you feel it's receiving.
I've seen him live, I've purchased and repeatedly listened to two suffyawn CDs (Illinoise & Greetings from Michigan: The Great Lakes State); his music is contrived, weak, and thin. His live performance was pretentious and filled with a large number of boring self gratifying moments.
I don't like suffyawn and I humbly disagree with you.
Not my bag...
Complex for complexity's sake? Not really, the guy just likes orchestration. If you've ever read one of his interviews, he comes off as pretty humble (if not self-deprecating) about his material. Not pompous, or "pretentious" as so many might say.
Over-hyped/overrated? Those are completely subjective, and even if both were true, neither would be the fault of the artist. Nor do such attributes mean the music is bad - just maybe not worth the acclaim you feel it's receiving.
vandal wrote:
Complex? Please. Saying suffyawn's music is complex is like saying Bartók or Tchaikovsky are simple.
Suffyawn's studio recording is the epitome of complexity for complexity's sake, but his song writing is definitely simple and weak.
Overrated and over-hyped.
Phlegmaticman wrote:
The prog rock backlash has lasted long enough. I'm glad to hear some more complex music for a change.
Go, Sufjan!
Complex? Please. Saying suffyawn's music is complex is like saying Bartók or Tchaikovsky are simple.
Suffyawn's studio recording is the epitome of complexity for complexity's sake, but his song writing is definitely simple and weak.
Overrated and over-hyped.
skindy wrote:
OK, I've held it in too long and I'm gonna say it:
I DON'T LIKE SUFJAN STEVENS! Not this song, and not any of his songs that I've heard.
I don't understand why he's the critics' darling, or why they awarded him "Best Indie Album" last year. I've given him several chances, thinking maybe I just wasn't in the right mood or it wasn't the right song. But I've come to the irrefutable conclusion: YUCK. He reminds me of so many treacly 70s male singer-songwriters with wispy voice and ethereal sound, and it just does NOT work for me.
End of rant.
P.S. I wrote this before reading anyone else's comments. After reading a few, I see I'm not alone.
I can understand you. I have the same kind of trouble with some other acclaimed musicians too. But not with Sufjan Stevens. He touches my soul.
skindy wrote:
OK, I've held it in too long and I'm gonna say it:
I DON'T LIKE SUFJAN STEVENS! Not this song, and not any of his songs that I've heard.
I don't understand why he's the critics' darling, or why they awarded him "Best Indie Album" last year. I've given him several chances, thinking maybe I just wasn't in the right mood or it wasn't the right song. But I've come to the irrefutable conclusion: YUCK. He reminds me of so many treacly 70s male singer-songwriters with wispy voice and ethereal sound, and it just does NOT work for me.
End of rant.
P.S. I wrote this before reading anyone else's comments. After reading a few, I see I'm not alone.
This is what plays on an endless loop at the gates of hell I bet...
skindy wrote:
OK, I've held it in too long and I'm gonna say it:
I DON'T LIKE SUFJAN STEVENS! Not this song, and not any of his songs that I've heard.
I don't understand why he's the critics' darling, or why they awarded him "Best Indie Album" last year. I've given him several chances, thinking maybe I just wasn't in the right mood or it wasn't the right song. But I've come to the irrefutable conclusion: YUCK. He reminds me of so many treacly 70s male singer-songwriters with wispy voice and ethereal sound, and it just does NOT work for me.
End of rant.
P.S. I wrote this before reading anyone else's comments. After reading a few, I see I'm not alone.
Thanks for your opinion. I do not agree with it, I enjoy most everythign Sufjan does, but it is odd, and weird, and everything else, so you are entitled to not like it.
The prog rock backlash has lasted long enough. I'm glad to hear some more complex music for a change.
Go, Sufjan!
OK, I've held it in too long and I'm gonna say it:
I DON'T LIKE SUFJAN STEVENS! Not this song, and not any of his songs that I've heard.
I don't understand why he's the critics' darling, or why they awarded him "Best Indie Album" last year. I've given him several chances, thinking maybe I just wasn't in the right mood or it wasn't the right song. But I've come to the irrefutable conclusion: YUCK. He reminds me of so many treacly 70s male singer-songwriters with wispy voice and ethereal sound, and it just does NOT work for me.
End of rant.
P.S. I wrote this before reading anyone else's comments. After reading a few, I see I'm not alone.
Nothing against Sufjan Stevens, but I just don't like it. Seems too deep. Maybe if I was in a different mood.
Odyzzeuz wrote:
Yeah. There's a big drop between marginal and sucko barfo.
How does that even make sense, relative to my comment or not?
ploafmaster wrote:
Ya know, your argument has some holes too, to be fair. The average rating, last I checked, is over 6, which is well into the positive when you consider that even a 4 is "acceptable" according to Bill's descriptions.
I'm not trying to equate quality with the opinion of the masses, but when the average is higher then the mid point, it seems to me that there's more than simply marginal appeal here on RP. Additionally, even last month when you posted this, Sufjan's airplay has dropped off significantly.
Yeah. There's a big drop between marginal and sucko barfo.
this and the man of metropolis have become my two favorite sufjan songs. love them!
Ya know, your argument has some holes too, to be fair. The average rating, last I checked, is over 6, which is well into the positive when you consider that even a 4 is "acceptable" according to Bill's descriptions.
I'm not trying to equate quality with the opinion of the masses, but when the average is higher then the mid point, it seems to me that there's more than simply marginal appeal here on RP. Additionally, even last month when you posted this, Sufjan's airplay has dropped off significantly.
Odyzzeuz wrote:
This argument remains bogus. There are plenty of highly popular and frequently played artists who elicit no backlash whatsover. They consistenty get 8s, 9s and 10s from RP listeners. The backlash occurs against artists of marginal appeal who are played with frequency. If it doesn't appeal to me and I hear it a lot -- Sufferyawn being the case in point -- I grow annoyed. If you think this music would appeal to everyone if only they could just open their minds and hear it in a vaccuum of outside information, you're nuts. Sufferyawn ain't for everyone. His sound is slight, precious and calculated. To me it rings both false and pretentious. I would not like it in a box. I would not like it with a fox.
Odyzzeuz wrote:
I would not like it in a box. I would not like it with a fox.
QueenLucia wrote:I do not like it in a song. I would not touch it with a tong.
I would not smack it with a rake. I would not like it cuz its fake.
...........sounds VAGUELY like Sam Beam..............but I like Sam Beam ALOT MORE!
Odyzzeuz wrote:
I would not like it in a box. I would not like it with a fox.
I do not like it in a song. I would not touch it with a tong.
"Palisades" has one l.
Jusst sayingg.
Odyzzeuz wrote: OH SNAP!
The Purgatory Crap Of The Pusillanimous Sufyawn Is Out To Get Us
This argument remains bogus. There are plenty of highly popular and frequently played artists who elicit no backlash whatsover. They consistenty get 8s, 9s and 10s from RP listeners. The backlash occurs against artists of marginal appeal who are played with frequency. If it doesn't appeal to me and I hear it a lot -- Sufferyawn being the case in point -- I grow annoyed. If you think this music would appeal to everyone if only they could just open their minds and hear it in a vaccuum of outside information, you're nuts. Sufferyawn ain't for everyone. His sound is slight, precious and calculated. To me it rings both false and pretentious. I would not like it in a box. I would not like it with a fox.
ArbiterOfGoodTaste wrote:
Sufjan generally wins the award for the longest song titles.
I like it a lot that they are doing this. Plus music is excellent.
I usually really like his work, but this a little too.......cute?
andrewmi wrote:
Yay! What an excellent album this is. Could do without the overwhelming negativity in the comments, though. Call it the "Coldplay Syndrome": gain some acclaim/popularity, let the hatred begin. Sad to see.
This argument remains bogus. There are plenty of highly popular and frequently played artists who elicit no backlash whatsover. They consistenty get 8s, 9s and 10s from RP listeners. The backlash occurs against artists of marginal appeal who are played with frequency. If it doesn't appeal to me and I hear it a lot -- Sufferyawn being the case in point -- I grow annoyed. If you think this music would appeal to everyone if only they could just open their minds and hear it in a vaccuum of outside information, you're nuts. Sufferyawn ain't for everyone. His sound is slight, precious and calculated. To me it rings both false and pretentious. I would not like it in a box. I would not like it with a fox.
Way past its expiration date. Not built to last.
This guy is ok, but overrated in my opinion. Nothing special here...
Pazzat wrote:
I'm still rooting for Fairport Convention for this award with their "Sir B. McKenzie's Daughter's Lament For the 77th Mounted Lancers Retreat From The Straits Of Loch Knombe, In The Year Of Our Lord 1727, On The Occasion Of The Announcement Of Her Marriage To The Laird Of Kinleakie". Beat that.
OK, sorry Fairport and Surfjan, but I just checked it out on wikipedia and their current winner is Christine Lavin's "Regretting What I Said to You When You Called Me At 11:00 On Friday Morning To Tell Me That 1:00 Friday Afternoon You Were Gonna Leave Your Office, Go Downstairs, Hail A Cab, To Go Out To The Airport, To Catch A Plane, To Go Skiing In The Alps For Two Weeks. Not That I Wanted To Go With You; I Wasn't Able To Leave Town, I'm Not A Very Good Skier, I Couldn't Expect You To Pay My Way, But After Going Out With You For Three Years, I Don't Like Surprises. (A Musical Apology)", with 95 words and 380 characters. Surfjan is second.
(click here)
Bill, you gotta play that CLavin song. Right after Cows with Guns, for novelty hour.
ArbiterOfGoodTaste wrote:
Sufjan generally wins the award for the longest song titles.
I'm still rooting for Fairport Convention for this award with their "Sir B. McKenzie's Daughter's Lament For the 77th Mounted Lancers Retreat From The Straits Of Loch Knombe, In The Year Of Our Lord 1727, On The Occasion Of The Announcement Of Her Marriage To The Laird Of Kinleakie". Beat that.
OK, sorry Fairport and Surfjan, but I just checked it out on wikipedia and their current winner is Christine Lavin's "Regretting What I Said to You When You Called Me At 11:00 On Friday Morning To Tell Me That 1:00 Friday Afternoon You Were Gonna Leave Your Office, Go Downstairs, Hail A Cab, To Go Out To The Airport, To Catch A Plane, To Go Skiing In The Alps For Two Weeks. Not That I Wanted To Go With You; I Wasn't Able To Leave Town, I'm Not A Very Good Skier, I Couldn't Expect You To Pay My Way, But After Going Out With You For Three Years, I Don't Like Surprises. (A Musical Apology)", with 95 words and 380 characters. Surfjan is second.
(click here)
andrewmi wrote:
Yay! What an excellent album this is. Could do without the overwhelming negativity in the comments, though. Call it the "Coldplay Syndrome": gain some acclaim/popularity, let the hatred begin. Sad to see.
Or the music just rubs people the wrong way. Sometimes different sounding music -- which, I acknowledge, this to be -- needs time to grow on me. But, the more I hear this, the more I find it grating. He just sounds the same to me on all of his songs, and he sings in a sort of sing-song style that I just do not enjoy.
WHAT THE HELL...?
Yay! What an excellent album this is. Could do without the overwhelming negativity in the comments, though. Call it the "Coldplay Syndrome": gain some acclaim/popularity, let the hatred begin. Sad to see.
mikedill wrote:
new sufjan album next week!
Yeah, and it's worse than this one.
My hunch is Stevens is one of those impossible, probably ill artists who cannot help himself. Like someone suffering mania who has no "off" button. Yet, he's blessed with musical talent. Just don't try spending time with him. My hunch.
So tired of this guy.
Bill, you're puttin' me to sleep this afternoon!
mikedill wrote:
new sufjan album next week!
Thanks for the WARNING ..
SoundsGoodToMe wrote:
That's the abriged version. The full title is:
"I Wrote Another Song With a Very Long and Quirky Title about an Unusual Location or Theme Using Odd Instruments and Unique Instrumentation"
you forgot the rest...........
"....To Try and Pique Your Interest in this Absolute SuckFest I have Created"
meloman wrote:LOL 
Thanks for sparing us.
mikedill wrote:
new sufjan album next week!
Excellent!! The one ratings will be endless!! I'm sure!!
BradAl wrote:
I think it's important to note that this is ultimately Sufjan Steven's work, and we are only listening to it. We may not know or understand the reasoning behind his track titles (I definitely do not), but perhaps it has a personal meaning to him past trying to make the album seem greater than it actually is. I doubt that the thought "People will think I'm more clever if I add exclamation points to my titles" actually came into his mind. Simply listening to the lyrics in this album, it's clear that a lot of time, effort, and research went into it.
As far as the "merit or value" of the song, we label that ourselves. The fuss wasn't made by Sufjan Stevens, he merely created it - deservedly or not. And that doesn't reflect pretentiousness.
I couldn't agree more. Very well said.
new sufjan album next week!
bigstory wrote:
"I Wrote Another Song With a Very Long and Quirky Title!"
That's the abriged version. The full title is:
"I Wrote Another Song With a Very Long and Quirky Title about an Unusual Location or Theme Using Odd Instruments and Unique Instrumentation"
anniebear wrote: I absolutly adore this song! I just bought it off iTunes, and listening to it here at home, I got very emotional about it. "I could tell you, but telling gets old"
Thanks for sparing us.
Imkirok wrote:
Sorry, but this one's getting the mute button. I'll be back after a while!
That's really funny, I was just coming on to write the same thing...
ploba wrote:
music for dweebs
SufYawn takes the meaning of 'To Suck' to Unexplored Territory.
"I Wrote Another Song With a Very Long and Quirky Title!"
Awful.
Sorry, but this one's getting the mute button. I'll be back after a while!
Sufjan generally wins the award for the longest song titles.
Forget wasps. It's his damn voice that's out to get us! A solid jedynka.
I could have done without this one. It's just not doing anything for me. Hopefully someone out there is enjoying it. Gave it a 4 though I don't think "acceptable" is how I would describe this song.
I'm sorry - he kisses his friend while wearing leg warmers - this is just a little too much for me to sit still for.
I know a lot of artists are complained about as overplayed on Radio Paradise, but really! Sufjan Stevens! - please - enough already!
Enjoyed this thoroughly.
Very fresh. Good use of voices, arpeggio, layering, and horns.
Great lyrics too. I enjoyed the title.
When someone uses the word "pretentious," watch out.
It just means they don't personally get it, and probably feel insecure about it.
Here to not dumbing down RP for them.
ploba wrote:
music for dweebs
I guess I'm a dweeb, then
spartan wrote:
My favorite song on the album.
Thanks, Bill.
I've enjoyed reading the comments on this track. This site was the first place I heard Sufjan, and the one that made me buy this album. After listening to it and some tracks off of his other stuff, I don't really see how anything about his music could be construed as "pretentious". This is mostly because with artists I usually link pretension with popularity--those who have tasted popularity and are trying to hold onto it (or get more) by doing unorthodox things. This doesn't seem to apply with Sufjan because everything that is unorthodox about his music (the sound, the song titles, even the "50 states project") existed long before he was popular. Sufjan doesn't seem to be doing what he does in a bid for popularity--he's just being himself.
My two cents.
What he said. Well, except my favorite is still "They Are Night Zombies etc."
music for dweebs
Reminded me of "Life in a Northern Town."
And WHAT a set!
These last 4!!!
KUTGW!
KUTGW!One of the most creative musicians I've heard in such a long time! Really refreshing.
Odyzzeuz wrote:
Hated it.
Loved it.
My favorite song on the album.
Thanks, Bill.
I've enjoyed reading the comments on this track. This site was the first place I heard Sufjan, and the one that made me buy this album. After listening to it and some tracks off of his other stuff, I don't really see how anything about his music could be construed as "pretentious". This is mostly because with artists I usually link pretension with popularity--those who have tasted popularity and are trying to hold onto it (or get more) by doing unorthodox things. This doesn't seem to apply with Sufjan because everything that is unorthodox about his music (the sound, the song titles, even the "50 states project") existed long before he was popular. Sufjan doesn't seem to be doing what he does in a bid for popularity--he's just being himself.
My two cents.
I think it's important to note that this is ultimately Sufjan Steven's work, and we are only listening to it. We may not know or understand the reasoning behind his track titles (I definitely do not), but perhaps it has a personal meaning to him past trying to make the album seem greater than it actually is. I doubt that the thought "People will think I'm more clever if I add exclamation points to my titles" actually came into his mind. Simply listening to the lyrics in this album, it's clear that a lot of time, effort, and research went into it.
As far as the "merit or value" of the song, we label that ourselves. The fuss wasn't made by Sufjan Stevens, he merely created it - deservedly or not. And that doesn't reflect pretentiousness.
tony620d wrote:
you heard it here first - what a load of crap!
no, I was first....see message below your message....lol
Every time I hear this song, I have to go online and check what it is, because I like it a lot. It feels fresh to me. Feels great!
you heard it here first - what a load of crap!
Bill would you please oh please oh please play some other tracks off this album so I can rate them a solid 1 too?
The second piece from this album today. OK, not as bad as the first, but still ... LAME!
Insufferable.
jah_blessed wrote:
Well, pretentiousness, as I understand it, is someone or something (i.e. a work of music, in this case) pretending to have more merit or value than they actually have. I.e. making a show of it.
I find Sufjan Stevens' music to be too contrived and "clever" for its own good. And this is reflected in the attention-grabbing track titles, which suggest more than what the music really is about. What's the big fuss about his music, anyway? Some modesty might be in order here, but, no, Sufjan is planning 50 more albums for the remaining states. (Yeah, right!)
That's just my opinion of course. Hope you people enjoy the track.
what do you mean... "you people"?
Hated it.
daveesh wrote:
nope. still hasn't grown on me.
I want to like it, but it just becomes more annoying with each listen.
jbtidwell wrote:
The orchestral and choral structures of this song are soooo very cool to me... In this day and age its neat to hear something so unlike anything else out there - he is definitely OUT THERE...
Try any Philip Glass recordings, but especially the Koyaanisqatsi soundtrack. That recording has been around since 1983. :)
Like him or not, this guy seems to draw out some of the more thoughtful comments around here. I'm still up in the air about his stuff. However, whenever I hear another of his tunes, it seems to stand out from the background and I find it "interesting."
jah_blessed wrote:
Well, pretentiousness, as I understand it, is someone or something (i.e. a work of music, in this case) pretending to have more merit or value than they actually have. I.e. making a show of it.
I find Sufjan Stevens' music to be too contrived and "clever" for its own good. And this is reflected in the attention-grabbing track titles, which suggest more than what the music really is about. What's the big fuss about his music, anyway? Some modesty might be in order here, but, no, Sufjan is planning 50 more albums for the remaining states. (Yeah, right!)
That's just my opinion of course. Hope you people enjoy the track.
That is a good explanation. I still really like the music though, regardless of the artists' intention or humility.
I wouldn't say that Sufjan is simply trying to grab attention, though. It's easy to confuse ambition for ego. I'm glad he has a lofty goal - even if he never acheives it, it will drive him to write more music.
Am I just a "fanboi" defending one of my favorite artists? That's quite possible. But I think the more important question is how I plan to live with myself now that I've used the term, "fanboi."
Good post, lot of sense in it.
My two cents' worth is simply that this (and most of the rest of 'Illinoise') is still eminently playable around this place. And I think 'John Wayne Gacy' a pure genius.
jah_blessed wrote:
Well, pretentiousness, as I understand it, is someone or something (i.e. a work of music, in this case) pretending to have more merit or value than they actually have. I.e. making a show of it.
I find Sufjan Stevens' music to be too contrived and "clever" for its own good. And this is reflected in the attention-grabbing track titles, which suggest more than what the music really is about. What's the big fuss about his music, anyway? Some modesty might be in order here, but, no, Sufjan is planning 50 more albums for the remaining states. (Yeah, right!)
That's just my opinion of course. Hope you people enjoy the track.
ploafmaster wrote:
I generally don't expect people to have to back up what they say, but it does bother me when people toss around the word, "pretentious," for any film or music they think is trying to be something. Like when my older brother says, "I don't like indie films, they're too pretentious."
What does he mean by that? And what do you mean by it talking about this song/musician? I'm not attacking, I just want to know, because that word is tossed out around here like the cheapest word in the English language.
Well, pretentiousness, as I understand it, is someone or something (i.e. a work of music, in this case) pretending to have more merit or value than they actually have. I.e. making a show of it.
I find Sufjan Stevens' music to be too contrived and "clever" for its own good. And this is reflected in the attention-grabbing track titles, which suggest more than what the music really is about. What's the big fuss about his music, anyway? Some modesty might be in order here, but, no, Sufjan is planning 50 more albums for the remaining states. (Yeah, right!)
That's just my opinion of course. Hope you people enjoy the track.
Death_to_Clear_Channel wrote:
Well I'm not shy. I'm attacking. Tell us oh Blessed Jah, what pretentiousness means. Tell us how Sufjan is a poseur. Looking forward to it.
Touched a nerve there, did I? All I'm saying is that the contrived titles suggest that the music is more than it really is. (Which is mediocre at best, but that's just my opinion.)
I'm not sure if Sufjan is a poseur. No-one said he was.
jah_blessed wrote:
Mediocreness posing as cleverness. Yeah, like you said, pretentious.
Well I'm not shy. I'm attacking. Tell us oh Blessed Jah, what pretentiousness means. Tell us how Sufjan is a poseur. Looking forward to it.
jah_blessed wrote:
Mediocreness posing as cleverness. Yeah, like you said, pretentious.
I generally don't expect people to have to back up what they say, but it does bother me when people toss around the word, "pretentious," for any film or music they think is trying to be something. Like when my older brother says, "I don't like indie films, they're too pretentious."
What does he mean by that? And what do you mean by it talking about this song/musician? I'm not attacking, I just want to know, because that word is tossed out around here like the cheapest word in the English language.
kult wrote:
What's with the stupid convoluted titles and exclamation marks everywhere!
Mediocreness posing as cleverness. Yeah, like you said, pretentious.
I think I started to produce estrogen.
nope. still hasn't grown on me.
shakylegs wrote:
Likewise.
This song makes me feel that I should be drinking organic green tea and eating dried, flavourless spelt cookies, all the while feeling smugly superior for my choices.
Likewise.
Please, please PLEASE stop playing this track. No offence to the artist; I'm sure he's very tallented, but this track makes my teeth ache...
jbtidwell wrote:
The orchestral and choral structures of this song are soooo very cool to me... In this day and age its neat to hear something so unlike anything else out there - he is definitely OUT THERE... supposedly this song is about a tragedy in which the singer's childhood best friend dies after being stung by a wasp
Sufjan is beginning to sound like Bobby Weir and TGD.
The orchestral and choral structures of this song are soooo very cool to me... In this day and age its neat to hear something so unlike anything else out there - he is definitely OUT THERE... supposedly this song is about a tragedy in which the singer's childhood best friend dies after being stung by a wasp
This is so breathy and empty
My nominee for the most annoying singer recording today! Sorry, just too precious for me.
Tiresome.
What's with the stupid convoluted titles and exclamation marks everywhere! They're so irritating! And pretentious!
torturedpotato wrote:
Yes it is and he has done about Illinois. If there were rules about how many references to how many aspects of Illinois need to be incorporated to make an album called "Illinois" about the state of Illinois, I would advise you to make a checklist. But I would argue that with this album, he has made (as do his listeners) exactly as many connections between his music and the state of Illinois as he wants and needs to. If you don't like it - you don't like it and fair enough. I like it. I also like Chicago. I don't like the album any more or less because I like Chicago. The album stands alone, IMO.
You are right. It is a matter of opinion. I find a song like Graham Nash's "Chicago" to have much more to do with Chicago than Sufjan's "Chicago."
And I love Chicago, the city!
steeler wrote:
Thanks, Drover. I lived in Chicago for 20-some years, so I am familiar with much of what you recounted, but not all. But I guess I do not think that making fleeting and peripheral references to part of a state, as he has done in "Chicago" and "Casimir Pulaski Day," makes the songs themselves about Illinois. In the case of the two I just mentioned, the stories being told, it seems to me, could have unfolded anywhere, and have no direct connection to Illinois. Now, normally, that would not be much of a criticism. But isn't the idea here that Sufjan is making an album about each of the states?
Yes it is and he has done about Illinois. If there were rules about how many references to how many aspects of Illinois need to be incorporated to make an album called "Illinois" about the state of Illinois, I would advise you to make a checklist. But I would argue that with this album, he has made (as do his listeners) exactly as many connections between his music and the state of Illinois as he wants and needs to. If you don't like it - you don't like it and fair enough. I like it. I also like Chicago. I don't like the album any more or less because I like Chicago. The album stands alone, IMO.
One of the first songs I heard from him. Love it. Have to say THANK YOU to RP for getting Suf into my world.
There´s a live-version of it on youtube where all of the musicians are wearing giant wings. It´s like a fairy tale. And the string arrangement at the end is just mesmerizing.
Saw him live this year. He´s an amazing talent.