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VV

VV Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 23, 2024 - 7:38am

 kurtster wrote:
You kids might want to learn a little bit of history regarding good old Nelson.

He was to Nixon what Cheney was to Bush.  You can thank him for bringing Kissinger into the US government.

Being from the West as opposed to the East, this Rockefeller means a whole lot different than the perceptions that Easterners have of him.

Just to be clear, it was not a compliment.

Sorry, you can't take it back. I do see it as a compliment. Trump couldn't carry Rockefeller's jock-strap. 



VV

VV Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 23, 2024 - 7:34am

 kurtster wrote:

You seem to forget that IIRC it was Hillary who called Trump supporters a "basket of deplorables" and you also left out "irredeemable", you know, the way islander and his crew mates view me in particular.  We didn't adopt these phrases, they were permanently branded on us.  Oh, and remember Strzok, the beloved FBI agent who said he could smell the Trump supporters at Walmart ?

And here in this and other threads we see the ongoing exhibition of these steadfast beliefs about Trump supporters on a never ending daily basis.

Yep.  And we are the ones called intolerant and hostile in addition to deplorable and irredeemable ?

.


😭 🤡 Really? deplorables is what you want to talk about? You're really scraping the bottom of the barrel. Does "Sh*thole Countries" ring a bell there champ? There's a whole laundry list where that came from.
 
You are irredeemable. Might as well own it.


Beaker

Beaker Avatar

Location: Your safe space


Posted: Feb 23, 2024 - 7:22am



islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 23, 2024 - 6:59am

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


If you think Lazy doesn't know that you are irredeemable. 


Hillary's mistake was in thinking that the absolute fucking nutjobs out there were still looked down on by the majority GOP. Calling those people deplorable was meant to be an olive branch to the sensible majority in the GOP——which turned out to be an illusion.


Yeah, that should have been a < look around and see a bunch of Nazis > < slowly walk away > moment. Instead we got < well those other people called me names > < look, snazzy uniforms >



ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 23, 2024 - 6:27am

 kurtster wrote:

You seem to forget that IIRC it was Hillary who called Trump supporters a "basket of deplorables" 


If you think Lazy doesn't know that you are irredeemable. 


Hillary's mistake was in thinking that the absolute fucking nutjobs out there were still looked down on by the majority GOP. Calling those people deplorable was meant to be an olive branch to the sensible majority in the GOP——which turned out to be an illusion.
islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 23, 2024 - 5:45am

 Lazy8 wrote:

You think you're kidding, but honestly I think this is where the majority of Trump's support comes from.

This is why his supporters adopted the epithet "deplorables". Every example of this disdain fuels their sense of grievance.

Yeah, I think it's misdirected. Tribal. Counter-productive, self-defeating, and eminently exploitable by demagogues. And look what it has gotten us.

I know a lot of people in this camp. According to the rhetoric being flung at them it's because they're all racists, homophobes, transphobes, misogynists, anti-science, anti-intellectual, religious bigots, deluded conspiracy theorists...pick your pejorative. And some of them are at least some of these.

Steven Miller is a racist. Alex Jones is an utterly shameless grifter leading a conspiracy cult. Ted Cruz is (at least performatively) anti-immigrant. The list goes on.

But is Ted Cruz a homophobe? No, he's an opportunistic (if reluctant) conscript terrified that the mob he once led will turn on him. Is Steven Miller anti-science? Don't have any reason to think so, he's just taking an opportunity to push his agenda. Alex Jones is seeking an audience that won't dismiss him as a nutcase. Peter Navarro found a receptive audience for his anti-trade agenda.

And Tribe Trump welcomes them, at least until their leader finds them no longer useful or a threat and casts them out.

From the outside everyone in the tribe gets sullied with the characteristics of the worst examples within the tribe. This is unfair, but it's a unifying dynamic. If you're going to be tarred as a racist regardless of whether or not you actually are one, then the epithet "racist" starts losing its power. Diluting the word this way accomplishes exactly nothing besides empowering actual racists.

So I don't mean to single you out for this, you are far from the only one feeding this fire. But you need to ask yourself it this approach is really helping.


I'll start with 'I don't think everyone in the crowd is  racist/homophobe/ant-science'.  I can even see why many are pushed that direction due to economic and social circumstance. But there has to be at least a little resonance or familiar echo in the sentiment for them to stay there.  If I find myself on the same side of an issue as the Nazis, my first reaction is to really consider that position, not to rationalize it by saying 'the Nazis aren't all bad, they have some really snazzy uniforms'.   If their grievance is so deep that they are more comfortable siding with a group of fascists because they don't like my stance on equality, science or *complete* religious freedom, that's their choice.  "Yeah, but those guys were mean to me" is a weird excuse to join a group that espouses some pretty specifically 'mean' stances, it just happens to be pointed a different direction.

The right has leaned into it with the "we're all domestic terrorists" at CPAC, and the new crazy bits from Jack Posobiec at CPAC championing 'the end of democracy' (in a good way?!?!) and Steve Bannon responding with â€œWe are here to overthrow it completely. We didn’t get all the way there on January 6, but we will endeavor to get rid of it.”  If these are your guys because you aren't comfortable with the other side well, the people get the government they deserve. The fact that the leaders are just opportunistic doesn't diminish the part about them being assholes.  EDIT TO NOTE: yes the end of democracy bit was humor. That the jokes made in this forum were self deprecating, the jokes made at CPAC were about hurting other people. Again - if that's what resonates, maybe there's a reason.

I don't think everyone on the right thinks in lockstep. There is a wide swath of beliefs. But I am alarmed at how swiftly they handwave blatant racism because of some tiny bit of convenience that arrives with it.  "Those guys are mean to me (because they wanted me to wear a mask during a pandemic), so I'm going to join the flat earthers" is a hard stance to understand.  When viewed as a pattern, the cruelty appears to be a feature not a bug.

rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 23, 2024 - 5:08am

 Lazy8 wrote:

You think you're kidding, but honestly I think this is where the majority of Trump's support comes from.

This is why his supporters adopted the epithet "deplorables". Every example of this disdain fuels their sense of grievance.

Yeah, I think it's misdirected. Tribal. Counter-productive, self-defeating, and eminently exploitable by demagogues. And look what it has gotten us.

I know a lot of people in this camp. According to the rhetoric being flung at them it's because they're all racists, homophobes, transphobes, misogynists, anti-science, anti-intellectual, religious bigots, deluded conspiracy theorists...pick your pejorative. And some of them are at least some of these.

...

Kurt's right about Hillary being the Founder of deplorables.  She said it...and it immediately became a badge of MAGA honor.

As for the rhetoric, I suggest the non-MAGA crowd doesn't believe everyone is all of those things, it's that they directly or indirectly rationalize all of those things by supporting a criminal who embraces anything for money and power. 

The group's ability to dismiss Trump's obvious pandering to racists, homophobes, misogynists, anti-intellectuals, zealots, conspiracy theorists, and autocrats is why all are branded as one.

kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 22, 2024 - 10:59pm

 Lazy8 wrote:
 islander wrote:
I'm honestly a bit sad that I wasn't namechecked under 'rich authoritarian elites'.  remember where you came from though, you will always be riff-raff to us.

You think you're kidding, but honestly I think this is where the majority of Trump's support comes from.

This is why his supporters adopted the epithet "deplorables". Every example of this disdain fuels their sense of grievance.

Yeah, I think it's misdirected. Tribal. Counter-productive, self-defeating, and eminently exploitable by demagogues. And look what it has gotten us.

I know a lot of people in this camp. According to the rhetoric being flung at them it's because they're all racists, homophobes, transphobes, misogynists, anti-science, anti-intellectual, religious bigots, deluded conspiracy theorists...pick your pejorative. And some of them are at least some of these.
 
You seem to forget that IIRC it was Hillary who called Trump supporters a "basket of deplorables" and you also left out "irredeemable", you know, the way islander and his crew mates view me in particular.  We didn't adopt these phrases, they were permanently branded on us.  Oh, and remember Strzok, the beloved FBI agent who said he could smell the Trump supporters at Walmart ?

And here in this and other threads we see the ongoing exhibition of these steadfast beliefs about Trump supporters on a never ending daily basis.

Yep.  And we are the ones called intolerant and hostile in addition to deplorable and irredeemable ?

.
Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 22, 2024 - 10:34pm

 islander wrote:
I'm honestly a bit sad that I wasn't namechecked under 'rich authoritarian elites'. 

remember where you came from though, you will always be riff-raff to us.

You think you're kidding, but honestly I think this is where the majority of Trump's support comes from.

This is why his supporters adopted the epithet "deplorables". Every example of this disdain fuels their sense of grievance.

Yeah, I think it's misdirected. Tribal. Counter-productive, self-defeating, and eminently exploitable by demagogues. And look what it has gotten us.

I know a lot of people in this camp. According to the rhetoric being flung at them it's because they're all racists, homophobes, transphobes, misogynists, anti-science, anti-intellectual, religious bigots, deluded conspiracy theorists...pick your pejorative. And some of them are at least some of these.

Steven Miller is a racist. Alex Jones is an utterly shameless grifter leading a conspiracy cult. Ted Cruz is (at least performatively) anti-immigrant. The list goes on.

But is Ted Cruz a homophobe? No, he's an opportunistic (if reluctant) conscript terrified that the mob he once led will turn on him. Is Steven Miller anti-science? Don't have any reason to think so, he's just taking an opportunity to push his agenda. Alex Jones is seeking an audience that won't dismiss him as a nutcase. Peter Navarro found a receptive audience for his anti-trade agenda.

And Tribe Trump welcomes them, at least until their leader finds them no longer useful or a threat and casts them out.

From the outside everyone in the tribe gets sullied with the characteristics of the worst examples within the tribe. This is unfair, but it's a unifying dynamic. If you're going to be tarred as a racist regardless of whether or not you actually are one, then the epithet "racist" starts losing its power. Diluting the word this way accomplishes exactly nothing besides empowering actual racists.

So I don't mean to single you out for this, you are far from the only one feeding this fire. But you need to ask yourself it this approach is really helping.
ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 22, 2024 - 6:44pm

 islander wrote:

Stay out of my lane!





islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 22, 2024 - 5:57pm

 VV wrote:

Ahh rgio you old duck how goes the construction on your yacht? 
 





Stay out of my lane!

kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 22, 2024 - 5:30pm

You kids might want to learn a little bit of history regarding good old Nelson.

He was to Nixon what Cheney was to Bush.  You can thank him for bringing Kissinger into the US government.

Being from the West as opposed to the East, this Rockefeller means a whole lot different than the perceptions that Easterners have of him.

Just to be clear, it was not a compliment.
VV

VV Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 22, 2024 - 1:53pm

 rgio wrote:

VV dear....  I missed you at the club this morning. 

Can I tell you... the new towels in the steam room are crap.  Something about Eygpt (blah blah blah)... I don't know.  I think I'm getting a rash.

Good luck with your day.  I doubt Kurt will come out to play... maybe he's off his meds again?

If we don't talk, I'll see you at the fundraiser tomorrow night (God I hate those things... trash bar and inedible finger food... punishment for being so damn rich).

Ahh rgio you old duck how goes the construction on your yacht? 
 
Yes, skipped the club today as I burst a blood vessel in my eye this morning yelling at my groundskeeper for his butchering of my prized begonias. That little Ecuadorian man never ran so fast in his life. 
 
Ah yeah, that godawful fundraiser we were roped in to help fund whatshisname's kid and their mounting hospital bills for the kidney or liver or somesuch transplant. And you are spot on with that inedible food! God knows I can sh*t a better meal than that caterer serve on a tray! Anyway, gotta run the polo grounds await...



Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 22, 2024 - 10:26am

 Bill_J wrote:




Trump is all about retribution and revenge.

Bill_J

Bill_J Avatar



Posted: Feb 22, 2024 - 10:15am

 VV wrote:

Nap taken.
 
Now, let's see what's on my progressive, elitist, RINO agenda today...
  
Hmmmmm, two entries:

Find a rhyme for "orange".
  
Antagonize Kurt.
 
Light day.





Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 22, 2024 - 9:16am

 rgio wrote:

VV dear....  I missed you at the club this morning. 

Can I tell you... the new towels in the steam room are crap.  Something about Eygpt (blah blah blah)... I don't know.  I think I'm getting a rash.

Good luck with your day.  I doubt Kurt will come out to play... maybe he's off his meds again?

If we don't talk, I'll see you at the fundraiser tomorrow night (God I hate those things... trash bar and inedible finger food... punishment for being so damn rich).


I had a hellacious drive today (not to work, God forbid!) when some lower-class gent kept pestering me for a handout.


rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 22, 2024 - 7:55am

 VV wrote:

Nap taken.
 
Now, let's see what's on my progressive, elitist, RINO agenda today...
  
Hmmmmm, two entries:

Find a rhyme for "orange".
  
Antagonize Kurt.
 
Light day.



VV dear....  I missed you at the club this morning. 

Can I tell you... the new towels in the steam room are crap.  Something about Eygpt (blah blah blah)... I don't know.  I think I'm getting a rash.

Good luck with your day.  I doubt Kurt will come out to play... maybe he's off his meds again?

If we don't talk, I'll see you at the fundraiser tomorrow night (God I hate those things... trash bar and inedible finger food... punishment for being so damn rich).
Beaker

Beaker Avatar

Location: Your safe space


Posted: Feb 22, 2024 - 7:44am

 VV wrote:

Nap taken.
 
Now, let's see what's on my progressive, elitist, RINO agenda today...
  
Hmmmmm, two entries:

Find a rhyme for "orange".
  
Antagonize Kurt.
 
Light day.






VV

VV Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 22, 2024 - 7:35am

 VV wrote:

Thanks, I’ll have my manservant “Jules” retrieve it for me. In the meantime, can someone go out and silence all the birds in my courtyard? I’m trying to take a power-nap.




Nap taken.
 
Now, let's see what's on my progressive, elitist, RINO agenda today...
  
Hmmmmm, two entries:

Find a rhyme for "orange".
  
Antagonize Kurt.
 
Light day.


VV

VV Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 22, 2024 - 4:46am

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:

Next to your mother-of-pearl snuff box and matching monocle. Again. 


Thanks, I’ll have my manservant “Jules” retrieve it for me. In the meantime, can someone go out and silence all the birds in my courtyard? I’m trying to take a power-nap.



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