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Index » Regional/Local » USA/Canada » Joe Biden Page: 1, 2, 3 ... 96, 97, 98  Next
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rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 4, 2024 - 5:18am

 kurtster wrote:
I did not want anyone who might watch it to be predisposed by my thoughts.

His primary point that I got was about Natural Law.  Where it comes from and how it was arrived at and what it means as it relates to the Founding of this country and going forward from the beginning to the present.  I had to watch it twice to get that.  He covers a lot of ground.  After the first time and digesting it I was able to get a little deeper into it.

I've watched the Natural Law part twice (before and after your latest comment). 

I'm not sure I follow.  What do you think Natural Law meant to the founding fathers, and why is that important/appropriate today?


kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 3, 2024 - 10:34pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
You're beleaguered, everyone else is predictable puppets, okay, but did you ever give any hint as to what might be worth so much time that anyone not named Kurt would sit still for it? 

Edit: Watched the bulk of it and you're right, it's somewhat compelling, but after all of that, he swings and misses or avoids the point: It's not just freedom of religion, it's freedom from religion and/or government guided by Christianity (which is the religion the founders might cudgel us with). That the founding fathers couched everything they wrote in the religious terms of the day, doesn't mean they always assumed we'd be a "Christian nation." He seems to imply that.
 
I did not want anyone who might watch it to be predisposed by my thoughts.

His primary point that I got was about Natural Law.  Where it comes from and how it was arrived at and what it means as it relates to the Founding of this country and going forward from the beginning to the present.  I had to watch it twice to get that.  He covers a lot of ground.  After the first time and digesting it I was able to get a little deeper into it.

If you were to give it another go, start at the 7 minute mark.  I went and looked again and this is where he starts to make the point on Natural Law.  A very strong and well stated case, imho.  You might even come to a different conclusion.
ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 3, 2024 - 7:59pm

 kurtster wrote:

I could have gone straight to the Fox site but I have gotten so much static over that so i tried to find it on youtube where people wouldn't object as much.

guess I was wrong.

Like I said, if you can get past the messenger there is a worthwhile message.  I guess that I was right about people not being able to get past the messenger.

Oh well.

here's the official Fox page which is now up, with full controls.  try the closed captioning if you can't stand listening to him.  Or just never mind and move along.  I thought that there was a worthwhile message that was worth risking the objections to Levine.  So as usual its the messenger that is the problem.
.



You're beleaguered, everyone else is predictable puppets, okay, but did you ever give any hint as to what might be worth so much time that anyone not named Kurt would sit still for it? 

Edit: Watched the bulk of it and you're right, it's somewhat compelling, but after all of that, he swings and misses or avoids the point: It's not just freedom of religion, it's freedom from religion and/or government guided by Christianity (which is the religion the founders might cudgel us with). That the founding fathers couched everything they wrote in the religious terms of the day, doesn't mean they always assumed we'd be a "Christian nation." He seems to imply that.

kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 3, 2024 - 4:37pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
 kurtster wrote:

I cannot get this to embed for some reason.

Can't fast forward either. Highly controlling so what's that tell you?
 
I could have gone straight to the Fox site but I have gotten so much static over that so i tried to find it on youtube where people wouldn't object as much.

guess I was wrong.

Like I said, if you can get past the messenger there is a worthwhile message.  I guess that I was right about people not being able to get past the messenger.

Oh well.

here's the official Fox page which is now up, with full controls.  try the closed captioning if you can't stand listening to him.  Or just never mind and move along.  I thought that there was a worthwhile message that was worth risking the objections to Levine.  So as usual its the messenger that is the problem.
.

Beaker

Beaker Avatar

Location: Your safe space


Posted: Mar 3, 2024 - 3:35pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


On further review (and a Chrome restart), you're right. I wonder why they don't want it embedded though.
I didn't watch it but I did scroll towards the end to see if he gets to shouting. Got pretty loud.

That vid is on some goober's Youtube page - not Levin's.  Said goober apparently is trying to keep eyeballs on his vid page, to build engagement, no doubt.  Looking at his FoxNews vids, seems they're all copyright infringers ... so yah, goober it is.



ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 3, 2024 - 1:12pm

 Beaker wrote:


Fast forwards fine for me.  Also plays at multiple x normal speed.  But I won't watch it ... every time I tune into whatever Levin is yammering about, he ends up shouting.  And that's pretty much a channel-changer for me.


On further review (and a Chrome restart), you're right. I wonder why they don't want it embedded though.
I didn't watch it but I did scroll towards the end to see if he gets to shouting. Got pretty loud.
Beaker

Beaker Avatar

Location: Your safe space


Posted: Mar 3, 2024 - 12:43pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
Can't fast forward either. Highly controlling so what's that tell you?


Fast forwards fine for me.  Also plays at multiple x normal speed.  But I won't watch it ... every time I tune into whatever Levin is yammering about, he ends up shouting.  And that's pretty much a channel-changer for me.
R_P

R_P Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 3, 2024 - 11:46am

Meritocratic zero-sum status anxiety: any change must come at the expense of me-me-me and mine.

ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 3, 2024 - 11:25am

 kurtster wrote:

I cannot get this to embed for some reason.



Can't fast forward either. Highly controlling so what's that tell you?

kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 3, 2024 - 6:43am

I was wondering how or where I would place this video.  I guess this is as good a place as any ...

I caught this walking by and ended up watching the first 17 minutes of the show.  I didn't see anything after that point and have nothing to say about it.  But if it is possible to get past the messenger and listen to the message all the way through before jumping to any premature conclusions this may end up being germane to the debate we are attempting to have.

.
I cannot get this to embed for some reason.

Here's the youtube link.

Gone.  I'll look for it later.

try this one.  The show starts at 1 minute into it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_aLRB6UJ8g&t=10s
rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 3, 2024 - 6:40am

 steeler wrote:

This, more or less, is my point. I do not necessarily disagree with other points you have made. Wokeism is an umbrella term and disparate issues are swept under it.The implementation of DEI  policies is a legitimate issue, for the reasons you have set forth. Is that wokeism? What else falls under that rubric? CRT? The “war on Christmas?” What else? And as we talk about what  issues fall under that term, let’s also talk about how — and if —these issues logically are related, and whether they should be considered to be part of an agenda.

You make some great points.

DEI awareness is legitimate, but it is reverse discrimination against white candidates.  When metrics are created to measure increases in discrete populations, it by design requires reductions in others.

CRT is abused by both sides.  It's a real issue that has oppressed blacks for centuries, but it's not meant to harm or blame the white population.

Kurt talks a LOT about virtue signaling, and what upsets many is that the signals have become policy... and opposing the policy brings with it the potential for grave danger... so most stay silent.  An example: thanking the indigenous tribes for the land everything in America, Australia, and theoretically the entire planet happens upon.  It's pure performance, and is another example that reinforces the negativity that the Right has against "woke".

As for the "Happy Holidays" issue... who cares? Obviously, Kurt does, but as the majority of America leaves organized religion, is it really harmful to cover more bases than just Christmas?  Awareness beyond your own beliefs and traditions isn't a bad thing.  Again...someone receiving that message needs to have the awareness and accept the person wasn't attempting to convert them, marginalize them, or minimize their traditions.  Common sense, and an assumption of innocence. 

The MAGA movement has a ton of insanity, but their "woke" focus hits home for a lot of people as based in fact and policy.
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 3, 2024 - 6:25am

 steeler wrote:
 And as we talk about what  issues fall under that term, let’s also talk about how — and if —these issues logically are related, and whether they should be considered to be part of an agenda.
 
I guess that you missed this.

kurtster wrote:
I guess if this resultant behaviour of the public is intended then one must ask who are the ones doing the steering and why.  Or is society just evolving this way on its own ?  Me, I'm with the former.
 
It's past my bedtime.  I'll check back in this afternoon and see what awaits.
steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Mar 3, 2024 - 6:05am

 rgio wrote:
. . . 
 It's a gift to Trump, who rallies all of those who don't quite understand or like the "new norms" with a single word.
. . .

This, more or less, is my point. I do not necessarily disagree with other points you have made. Wokeism is an umbrella term and disparate issues are swept under it.The implementation of DEI  policies is a legitimate issue, for the reasons you have set forth. Is that wokeism? What else falls under that rubric? CRT? The “war on Christmas?” What else? And as we talk about what  issues fall under that term, let’s also talk about how — and if —these issues logically are related, and whether they should be considered to be part of an agenda.
rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 3, 2024 - 5:36am

 steeler wrote:
Why do you keep disregarding everything in my post except the reference to wokeism? The context is in the first three sentences.

I think there is a fair amount of agreement as you continue to spar over language.

Kurt's point is valid.  The inequities that existed decades ago were addressed by political correctness, which has spun into the Republican's leveraging "woke" as some sort of criminal activity.  It's overused and ignores that there are still millions of systemically disadvantaged people, but the abuses Kurt addresses are real.  For all of the common sense that the left suggests is missing from the MAGA supports, the refusal by many to accept innocent errors and historical norms is self-defeating and wrong.  It's a gift to Trump, who rallies all of those who don't quite understand or like the "new norms" with a single word.

If someone wants to be referred to as "they", fine.  If someone innocently makes a mistake, the "potentially offended"needs to appreciate the scale of the change they're expecting, and not use every "offense" as a means to punish others.  Leadership needs to be reasonable, and accept that every instance of someone being "marginalized" or "oppressed" isn't the fault of the accused.  It feels like the historically oppressed are NEVER challenged on their current claims of oppression, and that's a problem.  The feelings and concerns of those historically advantaged (see middle and upper-class white people as a generalization) appear to be irrelevant.  The pendulum needed to swing, but it's gone too far to the other side now.  It's beginning to swing back to rational, but it's got a long way to go.

Sure...Kurt maneuvers around answers and exacerbates the excessive use of the term, but it's the left who's provided the ammunition. 
steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Mar 3, 2024 - 4:55am

 kurtster wrote:
And I thought that I addressed what "wokeism" is in my first response  . . .

Why do you keep disregarding everything in my post except the reference to wokeism? The context is in the first three sentences.


kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 2, 2024 - 9:31pm

 steeler wrote:
 kurtster wrote:

Then why did you bring it up ?  I'm confused at what your point was.

The reason I brought it up was as an example of how issues are aggregated to fall under an overriding agenda. This is what I wrote in my initial post:
Unfortunately, talking through issues, much less debating them, is mostly equivalent to a lost art. Too often, a position on an issue is considered a puzzle piece, seen as part of an all-encompassing agenda. The necessity of constructing — and maintaining — these monoliths undermines not only reasoned discussion on issues, but democracy itself. We now see presidential candidates campaigning against “wokeism.” I don’t even know what that means, but it draws applause and stirs emotions. None of this bodes well.
 
And I thought that I addressed what "wokeism" is in my first response.

Since you don't know what something means that makes it imaginary and unreal ?

Is "wokeism" to you an example of something not real then ?  An example of something made up purely to stir people up into becoming emotional and to stop thinking ?

FWIW, here is what I would call an example of "wokeism" in action.  I was going to include it in a response to Beaker's comment about how to find common ground.  That got waylaid by last weekend and a browser update that deleted a response under construction.

Are you already aware of this incident or is this something new to you ?

Elderly volunteer, 90, claims she was forced out of MS Society job for asking about pronoun usage

People are losing their jobs and positions over this stuff.  You still think this is just some imaginary thing or trivial thing ?
steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Mar 2, 2024 - 6:14pm

 kurtster wrote:

Then why did you bring it up ?  I'm confused at what your point was.

The reason I brought it up was as an example of how issues are aggregated to fall under an overriding agenda. This is what I wrote in my initial post:


Unfortunately, talking through issues, much less debating them, is mostly equivalent to a lost art. Too often, a position on an issue is considered a puzzle piece, seen as part of an all-encompassing agenda. The necessity of constructing — and maintaining — these monoliths undermines not only reasoned discussion on issues, but democracy itself. We now see presidential candidates campaigning against “wokeism.” I don’t even know what that means, but it draws applause and stirs emotions. None of this bodes well.


kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 2, 2024 - 5:59pm

 steeler wrote:
 kurtster wrote:
. . . The happy holidays thing. Having worked retail forever, this is real and not just thin air. . . .

I do not attach any significance to the “happy holidays thing.” 
 
Then why did you bring it up ?  I'm confused at what your point was.
kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Mar 2, 2024 - 4:40pm

Just saw this hot take on Twitter and thought it resonated: 

Trump: "What Biden is doing to me is illegal!" 

Also Trump: "Nothing a President does is illegal!" 

Sorta feels like that junior high school joke—a piece of paper with "How do you keep an id iot occupied? Flip over to see answer"  written on both sides
steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Mar 2, 2024 - 3:12pm

 kurtster wrote:
. . . The happy holidays thing. Having worked retail forever, this is real and not just thin air. . . .

I do not attach any significance to the “happy holidays thing.” I do not believe there is any deep meaning to be ascribed to it. Frankly, I think it is a silly “issue.” What it shows, if anything, is the depth of the cultural polarization that afflicts our society, a divide so deep that it leads people to assert that Starbucks engaged in a “war on Christmas” because it changed the design and imagery of its holiday cups. The phrase “spoiling for a fight” comes to mind.


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