pigtail wrote: 
No, I'm not.  I guess his policies have personally harmed you by your reply.  How so ?

Appeasing Narcissus...
Trump gets a folder full of positive news about himself twice a day

 kurtster wrote: 

FYT

Yes, that's about the size of it. Some of us took an oath, after all.

 kurtster wrote: 

You're fucking kidding me right?

 VV wrote: 
Bueno! We should catch up on hockey and other important things 

 zevon wrote: 
Hey, thanks for the shout out. Doing well. you? 

Trump's utter economic and foreign trade policy incompetence, in a nutshell.

Trump’s Trade Pullout Roils Rural America

 VV wrote: 
I couldn't give two shits about this thread, but I want to send a big love shout out to Mr V V - haven't seen your name in a long time, but I'm not here that often. Hope you're doing great!

 Steely_D wrote: 
Somehow having the expectation that a person needs to demonstrate that they are fit to do the job seems to peg one as a "Trump Hater". You have eloquently expressed why Trump is unfit as he cannot even fulfill what are some of the most basic qualifications/expectations of the position. Factor in all of his alarming personal traits and you have a toxic cocktail.

We aren't sacrificing our country by trying to get him out of office but rather trying to save our country from someone who isn't fit to run it. The country would be better off for it.

 kurtster wrote: 
Not true, but believing this might make it able for someone to overlook all those things that I bulleted previously, things that are bad for America.

The difference is that Trump is ineloquent, unfocused, vulgar, wasteful, vindictive, and ignorant of how American government works. The backlash is not that he's a third party candidate - it's that he can't do the work of the job. He didn't have the resume, hasn't done the prep work, doesn't work well with his co-workers in other nations, and hasn't improved in the first half year that he's been at work.

Give us a third party candidate that can speak well, think comprehensively and with an understanding of the issues, treat all Americans with respect, and deal with us honestly - and you've got a winner, no matter now hard their message is. Many hands make light work, and so we need a leader to unite us, not fragment us into civil war.

 kurtster wrote: 

"I mean, WhoTF leaked verbatim transcripts of conversations between Trump and other Heads of State (HOS) ?  That is totally unprecedented and a not only a direct threat to our national security, but imo, borders on Treason, real Treason.  And then we have (so-called) respected media outlets publishing them, which is also unprecedented.  For what purpose, for what gain ?"



Forgive my ignorance, but I'm not sure when/where these conversations took place. However, I'll take you bait...

Have you ever considered that the leak you refer to may have been leaked by person/s hired or appointed by the Trump administration? Do you realize that many of the leaks coming from the Trump administration are occurring within the White House and by people hired to work for Trump (therefore presumably loyal to Trump)? Reporters have repeatedly stated that high-level officials appointed by the administration are leaking info in order to stab each other in the back and defend themselves. There's also the possibility that government officials from other countries leaked these words. 

You say that leaking those transcripts borders on Treason. I invite you to read this WaPo piece, written by a professor of law at UC-Davis. Focus on myth 1 and 3. 


 Five myths about treason

Was that leak unprecedented? Quite doubtful. And the reason that media outlets published them (again, I'm taking your word for this action; I simply haven't had time to keep up with this f$#*ing train-wreck of an administration lately) is they deemed those conversations newsworthy. Just like they deemed the conversation between Trump and the Russian ambassador newsworthy. You remember that conversation: the one where Trump blabbed classified information about intel sources from the Israelis about ISIS. Trump didn't commit treason then. The leakers of summit talks didn't either. 

"Y'all are willing to sacrifice our country in order to get Trump out of office." 


Brother, please. Every administration since Washington's has complained about leaks. They are the natural consequence of conflicting interests and ambitious individuals inside and outside an administration. Information is power and currency in a democracy. Again, you seem to believe that "deep state" people working for the government are the only ones leaking information and that's flat-out wrong: Trump's people are leaking information too. 

King Louis XIV supposedly once said "'L'etat c'est moi' ('I am the state')"  and frankly it wouldn't surprise me if Trump would believe the same thing if he ever took time to consider the proposition. But Trump is not the state. The concept of loyal opposition has been around for centuries, even during times of actual war. If you can provide an instance where information leaked about Trump or his government places the country in imminent danger or on its own damages the country's interests, please tell us. I don't believe you can. Conversations between national leaders at international summits get leaked all the time.

I get the impression that you see all these leaks about Trump's administration as a sign of damaging disloyalty from "deep state" enemies of Trump. I invite you to consider that those leaks are a sign of a chaotic, dysfunctional and poorly organized government filled with incompetents looking to save their own skins.

I warned you that Trump's rule would look like this. I warned you that he was either going to open the government to the swamp beasts of Washington or fail to get anything done. I didn't realize that he could and would do both. Trump is far more unprepared, self-destructive, stupid, rash, lazy, dishonest and flat-out crazy than I imagined. 

Trump's failures and incompetence are his own fault. Probably the biggest reason for all these leaks is that people working for him are quite willing to let their shock, dismay and disbelief at this warped clown get out to the media.  

 kurtster wrote: 
This becomes a game of "spot the patriot, spot the traitor." Your argument is that Trump represents those who are trying to save the country from the "establishment" and "deep state." The leaks are from those in the "establishment" and "deep state" who are trying to protect their Golden Goose and are willing to destroy the country to do so. One could argue that the leaks are motivated by a desire to keep the country from being destroyed by Trump. See, for example, Daniel Ellsberg, and the Pentagon Papers. Myself, I do not believe in the existence of The Deep State.

 Steely_D wrote: 

So well said and couldn't agree more though it will fall on deaf ears of Trump supporters. Somehow his weakness are spun into being strengths. Bad becomes good. Bizarrarro world rules apply. 

 miamizsun wrote: 
Exactly.  Those who support 3rd party candidates should be looking at what is happening to Trump as a preview as to what would also happen to any 3rd party candidate who would ever overcome all obstacles and do the unlikely and win.  

What we are witnessing with Trump is the establishment / deep state fighting someone who threatens their very existence, with tooth and nails fully exposed.  

Trump, as an outsider who successfully hijacked the repub party, is essentially a 3rd party candidate.  No one who has faced the kind of opposition Trump has faced could likely do better in their first 6 months.  

I mean, WhoTF leaked verbatim transcripts of conversations between Trump and other Heads of State (HOS) ?  That is totally unprecedented and a not only a direct threat to our national security, but imo, borders on Treason, real Treason.  And then we have (so-called) respected media outlets publishing them, which is also unprecedented.  For what purpose, for what gain ?

To the board ...

Then we have Maxine Waters, a long tenured Member of Congress, calling for more of these treasonous leaks.  WTF is going on ?

Its obvious WTF is going on, but for those of you who hate Trump, this is A/OK and to be encouraged.  I say that because I have seen absolutely no objections to this kind of behaviour by the "resistance". 

Y'all are willing to sacrifice our country in order to get Trump out of office.  Its all the more reason to dig in and stand behind Trump, to keep y'all from furthering the destruction of this country.  Most of us who still support Trump do not blindly look the other way to what y'all call his shortcomings and deviancies.   We find it an asset to fight these ruthless and treasonous establishment forces that y'all applaud and encourage.  A lesser man would have already rolled over and played dead by now.  Where y'all see chaos the past 6 months, others see it as a shakedown cruise.  Everyone has been forced to show their hand.  

To call us blind in our support of Trump is a gross misunderstanding of the reality that is versus the reality y'all perceive versus the reality we perceive.  Ain't no one fighting fair on the resistance side.  As our previous POTUS said in his first election campaign in 2008, if they bring a knife to the fight, then we bring a gun ...

We are fed up ... Trump is our gun ...

ymwv ...

Edit:  just to be clear, we get that y'all are fed up, too.  But you're fed up with the things he's doing that we approve of, besides just being fed up with him, in the first place,

Can anyone here say that Trump has already personally affected them in a harmful way ?

Well, there's fistfights in the kitchen
They're enough to make me cry

Little mailman comes in
Even he's got to take a side

Even the butler
He's got something to prove

Then you ask why I don't live here
Honey, how come you don't move?

-Zimmy "On the Road Again;

 Steely_D wrote: 
Other than that, President Lincoln, how did you like the play?

 kurtster wrote: 
Stepping back, it makes total sense that most of America thinks Trump is a horrible President. If you had no ideology to support, no embarrassment over what happens next, it's impossible to support this President.

• Destroying our credibility around the world with his selfish behavior and speeches that lack nuance or savvy
• Not fulfilling his campaign promises (big beautiful wall paid for by Mexico, repeal & replace the ACA, etc) to his supporters
• No significant legislation movement despite being in control of the White House, the Congress, and even the Supreme Court
• Multiple, repeated well documented episodes of him lying to the American public
• Wasting the tax dollars of Americans with his Florida trips and more
• Flagrant hypocrisy regarding his criticisms of Obama, especially with the golf thing
• Insulting and alienating large segments of American culture (Hispanic, Muslim, Transgender, etc)
• Refusing to simply cooperate with the question of Russian involvement in his campaign
• Unequivocal and unrepentant nepotism, using "they're family; be nice" as Americans wonder if his son-in-law is the best person for all those jobs

How is it possible that he still has support? What group of people would still find his behavior Presidential?

Trump "haters" don't all think alike, that's for sure. But to not be extraordinarily disappointed in this guy - even if you voted for him - just doesn't make sense. Don't look for folks to be understanding if you're still saying that he is - or will be - good. His promises are empty. He's already six months in and this is what we've seen.

 oldviolin wrote: 
We have met the enemy. It is us.