I am the sole surviving token conservative voice from the old days as everyone else with my perspective has been driven off of here by the bullies. I never left and have been here continuously since I got here. For years until very recently it was me against everyone else. No one has been subjected to as much bullying and harassment here as me. It is well known that you can say anything you want or be as hurtful as you can towards me without retribution because of my political views.
You against the world your whole life.
Contrarian is not a noble cause.
Kurt -
This is a sincere response, read/like it or not:
There was a time when you were more than welcomed. Your views - even the extreme ones were platformed and challenged via a fairly normal process. Sometimes you adjusted, sometimes you held fast. You were not shunned, but you were challenged when appropriate. I don't think I would have called us friends, but we were certainly friendly. We traded advice and had a fun interaction. You always had a chip on your shoulder about certain things, and many of those things involved people from other cultures. You said more than one thing that was explicitly racist (the one coming to mind being about a shoplifter that you noted "of course they were black"). That ongoing tone, coupled with your developing love for simply being contrarian turned me off to you. I'm sorry if I was overly blunt, but racism has no place in my world, and I saw it from you, and I saw fewer and fewer opportunities to enjoyably interact. You are not the only conservative here, and even if you were, there is a place for that as long as it's not your daily job to simply remind everyone that you are the only conservative here. Look around, you get plenty of support and interaction in the places that aren't political. But you come back to those dry wells and shout into the void looking for the echo, then cry about it.
I'd be happy to have the old Kurtster back. A little conspiracy here and there can be entertaining. We are fine with a range of views, even contrarian. But you better be willing to back it with something that is within a realm of regular social norms. It's not wokeness, it is politeness and yes - respect. You are free to support any view you want - even political. But if you espouse things that are hurtful to others, you will probably get challenged. You don't need (or want) my approval, but you do need to behave in a way that will not be widely offensive. If you get banned or walk away, it's your own choices that brought you there.
I guess that the right thing to do is DD anyone who supported Trump.
That will fix everything.
Mutual respect is what will fix everything. And I never responded to you after my apology. Insisting I kept on in behavior I knew was abhorrent is a perception of offense on your part. My stand alone statements on other threads is an opportunity for my thoughts to be as free to share as yours. I was honestly scared to respond to either of you any more. And I truly meant that apology.
But you and CB could not let it go. Everywhere I posted you came at me if it was something you didn't like.
Your attitude of the hierarchy on the RP forum is flat out wrong; this is William's world; he built it. A lot of years of sweat and hard work went into this. You are another listener and contributor, not the arbiter of rules. This isn't the Felon President's forum.
When Sirdroseph's posts were so ugly as to make Alanna want to vomit; its a pretty clear indication your claims of 'only me' persecution and innocence are difficult to believe.
I am the sole surviving token conservative voice from the old days as everyone else with my perspective has been driven off of here by the bullies. I never left and have been here continuously since I got here. For years until very recently it was me against everyone else. No one has been subjected to as much bullying and harassment here as me. It is well known that you can say anything you want or be as hurtful as you can towards me without retribution because of my political views.
You against the world your whole life.
And we can all go and F ourselves as he has told us many times.
I am the sole surviving token conservative voice from the old days as everyone else with my perspective has been driven off of here by the bullies. I never left and have been here continuously since I got here. For years until very recently it was me against everyone else. No one has been subjected to as much bullying and harassment here as me. It is well known that you can say anything you want or be as hurtful as you can towards me without retribution because of my political views.
When you toss out any need for your ideas to correspond to an external reality, to put them up to the test, to accept and learn from failure, then you've lost the most important tools for you to develop as a human being.
DD's do not come easy. Sometimes they don't seem justified to some. If your memory is good, think back to beaker' s first DD for taking out his anger on others. This time, once again he just turned dark and would not leave a new member alone. I don't get any happiness from seeing him go but I certainly don't mourn his departure.
Contrary to some opinions, In my correspondence with RP, I insisted I did not desire any members to be taken off the forum. Everyone, and I do mean everyone, has a voice here. Even those I disagree with. It was Alanna's and RP staff decision. I had nothing to do with it. I'm not into doxing or removing anyone from the site.
Contrary to some opinions, In my correspondence with RP, I insisted I did not desire any members to be taken off the forum. Everyone, and I do mean everyone, has a voice here. Even those I disagree with.
It was Alanna's and RP staff decision. I had nothing to do with it. I'm not into doxing or removing anyone from the site.
Engagement with the platform is an element that the RP ownership / leadership has to manage. There is a difference between opinion and aggression, and when the latter threatens the continued participation of others, it puts their business at risk.
There are relatively few active users on these boards, and some of the ones who were very active when I started coming here (in 2001) have stopped engaging (I believe) because of the hostility and non-stop politics. Aggression is (IMO) antithetical to the vibe RP attempts to cultivate.
I applaud Alanna for stepping in. There have to be lines, and leaders need to call "enough" when they're constantly challenged and crossed.
Contrary to some opinions, In my correspondence with RP, I insisted I did not desire any members to be taken off the forum. Everyone, and I do mean everyone, has a voice here. Even those I disagree with.
It was Alanna's and RP staff decision. I had nothing to do with it. I'm not into doxing or removing anyone from the site.
Well, this thread is probably the best place to post this.
None of the following is an assessment on partisan lines but an observation about the nature of discourse, both here and on the internet in general. Bear with me, this will be a long one:
Philosophical realism is inherently based on a concept of correspondence, i.e. that someone's model/vision/understanding of the way things are actually corresponds, for better or worse, to something real, outside of your own brain.
Another school of ancient Greek philosophy is Sophism. These guys were like the advanced guard of post-modernism, for they put their emphasis on the role of language (logos) on shaping reality.
Now, before you poo-poo this idea on the face of it. It does have one fundamental argument that I think bears consideration: namely that the verbal model (logos) we have of the world is necessarily not the world itself. There will always be a fundamental divide between our mental constructs and the beings it purports to model. Secondly, our model will have inherent subjective bias in it based on our experience and the very form of the language we learn to make a mental model of the world. This of course opens up the door for later deconstructionists and modern philosophers who concentrate on the pitfalls and constraints of our language rather than on any questions of correspondence. Yeah, can of worms.
OK, so how is any of this relevant? Well, it became kind of de rigeur in the 80's and 90's for left-wing intellectuals to get into the various schools of post-modernist thought, resulting in such schools as critical race theory, semiotics, etc., which seemed to freak a lot of people out and led to the culture wars.
However, more recently, the radical right, with Steve Bannon taking the lead, thought, "you know what? we can do that too." And they too tossed out any presumption of entering dialog for the purpose of refining our model of the world (correspondence) but instead viewed language (and internet discourse) as merely a force in shaping people's understanding of reality. The fact that this model is more suited to swaying public opinion than some tedious fact-based argument is obvious.
Remember how many of the Republican candidates were all at sea during the 2016 primaries? This was why. They thought they were there to talk about substance. Trump was there to entertain.
The downside is this puts you on a slippery slope to sheer propaganda.
So, roll out the disinformation program. There's a video out there somewhere of the Russian foreign policy guru, Dugin, talking about his sheer horror and disbelief at US foreign policy statements regarding the 2nd Gulf War and other questionable acts, at how the US just threw truth out the window. He came to the conclusion, the US was right. Truth doesn't matter. It's all about power.
Now the cynics among us might say, so what? Same as it always was. The key is to inform yourself and retain enough critical faculties to make your own informed choice. True.
But more specifically, here on Radio Paradise, there has been a swing towards the sophists. It is no longer the content of your argument that counts, but your tribal allegiance. Not whether an argument is based on reality but on how many out there share the belief, and that is enough to make it true.
Naysayers are out there to be silenced in a never-ending game of whack-a-mole, either by drowning them out in the noise of your response or simply refuting the argument without providing any, or at best, only tenuous evidence. And the abrasive, screeching, even abusive, all-caps tone is also a very common tool in their arsenal.
So we end up with an entire generation who no longer seek to test the correspondence of their ideas with reality and adjust them accordingly but who rather merely echo the arguments resounding around the halls of their respective bubble chambers and, more critically, assume that is enough to make them true. So we now have a world where half-arsed idiots without a clue feel equally equipped to expound on complex issues, dismissing trained professionals or scientific evidence if this doesn't fit their narrative. And they feel justified in doing so.
Do you know what this reminds me of? Kindergarten.
Likewise, the open misogyny in the recent campaign was impossible to miss. Misogynists in my experience are generally males suffering from stunted development and have problems entering a real relationship, rather relying on power or the convention of marriage to avoid having to confront themselves. Correct me if I'm wrong.
IMO this lack of personal development goes hand in hand with the disinformation age. When you toss out any need for your ideas to correspond to an external reality, to put them up to the test, to accept and learn from failure, then you've lost the most important tools for you to develop as a human being.
So I guess that we are done here then. All that was missing was mutual self respect.
Oh, well
You say you want a Revolution
Well, you know
We all wanna change the world
You tell me that it's evolution
Well, you know
We all wanna change the world
But when you talk about destruction
Don't you know that you can count me out
Donât you know it's gonna be alright
Alright
Alright
By the way, this is the thread that will kill the Forum on RP once and for all. See you on BlueSky, or FB, someplace where we can curate our friends list to only hear from people who think like us. For the record, I'm FB friends with Beaker AND Hippiechick. I'll miss Jrzy and Buzz.
That would suit me just fine. WIth the staff William has put together here... with all the wonderful improvements that have been put in place.... multiple channels, 2050 etc... surely it's time for a major upgrade of a community platform that could rival any out there, somehow capturing the real spirit of RP I've witnessed for 20 years, based first & foremost on the music. In my humble opinion, this Forum platform has run its course in its present form and has become archaic & dated. It could be so much better, and maybe we could be as well.
So I guess that we are done here then. All that was missing was mutual self respect.
A community is built on its members. Being half-just isn't the same thing as being just.
And new members need to respect what is already present and earn their place as a new arrival.
To come in and start judging other members with no prior knowledge of who they are or the way things are done based upon years of history is not a prudent choice or wise course of action.
This place has come a long way over the years and is actually quite tame compared to how it used to be.
I am the sole surviving token conservative voice from the old days as everyone else with my perspective has been driven off of here by the bullies. I never left and have been here continuously since I got here. For years until very recently it was me against everyone else. No one has been subjected to as much bullying and harassment here as me. It is well known that you can say anything you want or be as hurtful as you can towards me without retribution because of my political views. I like Trump, made the distinction between legal and illegal immigration and stood firm on that. the former is fine, the latter is not with me, yet that resulted in me being called anti immigrant, period. That was the breaking point. As a result I have been called a fascist, a racist, bigot, homophobic, xenophobic, misogynistic, a hater, who is only motivated by hate and fear, rather than address my views which were summarily dismissed as illegitimate. On occasion some people have realized that they have crossed the line and even apologized. Yet after the apology they immediately return to the same behaviour as if they have been absolved by their apologies and can return to their usual conduct towards me. Kinda like confession. Go and confess, say a couple of Hail Mary's and carry on as if nothing happened and repeat and rinse as often as you like. And then the endless cavalcade of all the knowing saying that I am not smart enough to know that what is good for me and the tribe knows what is best for me and everyone else they disagree with that thinks like me. That I am ultimately and unwittingly acting against my own best interests based upon my stupidity. That is also the kind of rhetoric that motivated people to get up out of their chairs and vote for Trump and carry him to his victory.
I will also remind everyone that there was an active campaign by RPeeps over on Facebook to get me banned after Beaker's original departure. They got him banned and then turned their sites on me. I did not forget. Upon finding this out, I dug in deeper and did everything I could to change the way I said things in order to not cross any lines that would get me tossed. All the while anyone could say or do anything they liked about me, without fear. It made me a better person in the end, always trying to take the high road even if no one else did. I was held to higher standards of conduct than anyone else here and acted accordingly. I have been told that just seeing my name on the RAFT upset people, the hatred of me was that deep. But I also never rolled over and played dead and met the challenge head on. That only made people madder at me and gave them more justification for saying or doing anything to bait me into an over reaction that would finally get me banned.
I once said the very same thing that you did.
Th1nk1ngTh1ng wrote:
Please do not ever respond to another one of my posts.
I'm not interested in anything you have to say about anything.
If you do respond to anything I have to say going forward on this site, I will consider it harassment and bullying.
Your thoughts are not welcome when it comes to my posts.
Thank you for your compliance.
I was laughed at and it only got worse. I was going to bring this up in a reply to you that was started but never finished regarding the futility of a statement such as this since if you post here anything and everything is subject to a response whether or not it was wanted. Like Isabeau has done recently, I made many stand alone posts directed at no one in particular simply expressing a thought on a particular matter. And people in the RP way would respond as if it was directed at them personally. Now she wants no one to respond to her stand alone posts. Ok for her but not for me ? The double standard here is beyond blatant.
And so on you go with a remark like this about Beaker after only a month's worth of activity.
Th1nk1ngTh1ng wrote:
Oh, no. I've been lurking here for awhile. I have his number.
He reminds me so much of Plato's dialogue "Euthydemus" which is about the problem of people who only argue in bad faith.
Yeah, you have his number ?
How judgmental of you as a very recent participant.
You have his number only because you disagree with him and have found a way to rationalize your judgment based upon Plato.
I have never known Beaker to argue in bad faith and I have been around here as long as most everyone else. You pronounce his POV as illegitimate and therefore base that as grounds for arguing in bad faith.
And then we get to this.
Th1nk1ngTh1ng wrote:
kurtster wrote:
Ah !!! So you already know me after being a participant here what ? 2 months ?
If that ain't arrogance I don't know what is.
I've been a very regular participant since 2006. Member since 2002. Listener since 2001.
You're barely a grasshopper when it comes to me and things RP.
You can try and bait me all you want. I choose when, where and what I engage in here.
One thing that may help you out about me is that when you see me posting album covers in a particular thread it means that I am ripping albums and in the process have a lot of time to pass.
My plate is currently full and there is no space for you on it at this time. Your turn will come. I hope that you'll be up for it when it does.
I know what you've posted in response to me. And, this most recent post as evidence, is full of hatred. There are plenty of others.
I'm sorry that you feel so much hatred for people you don't even know. Say for instance people who have only recently shown up on this website - and have the audacity to disagree with you.
I'm not interested in any of your thoughts. Please, by all means, ignore me. And, lastly, I'm sorry you feel so much hatred for other people.
What exactly do you base your judgment on that I am full of hatred ? That has been your refrain since your first interaction with me.
A response to Beaker:
Th1nk1ngTh1ng wrote:
You are the only person on this website who AFAIK is more hateful and more miserable than Kurtster. I'm so sorry for you. You are hateful to us because you have so much self-hatred - in my assessment. I have so much empathy for you, I don't know what happened. But you are easily the most miserable person on this website. I'm sorry for whatever it was.
and this:
Th1nk1ngTh1ng wrote:
kurtster wrote:
I learned a long time ago that while you may be able to tell someone how to think, no one ever has the right to tell someone how they should feel about a thing or things.
Your soft skills are definitely lacking.
I'm not following. My "soft skills are definitely lacking" sure feels like a hateful insult. But you have the floor. Please tell me how I told you how you feel by saying that I feel empathy for you.
kurtster wrote:
Th1nk1ngTh1ng wrote:
I'm not following. My "soft skills are definitely lacking" sure feels like a hateful insult.
But you have the floor.
Please tell me how I told you how you feel by saying that I feel empathy for you.
I am not falling into a semantical trap with you. I may have been born yesterday, but it wasn't last night.
Do you know what "soft skills" are without looking it up ?
Ask some others who think like you around here for help and guidance on this. There are many here to be found.
They all have well established thoughts about me and are certainly not shy when it comes to sharing them.
Th1nk1ngTh1ng wrote:
I know very well what soft skills are. I work at a large corporation and I am on an interview panel that measures candidates based on "soft skills."
And, i know that your "soft skills" express a great deal of hatred. And, I'm sorry you feel so much hated for the world.
Yes, I have seen your type of baiting circular arguments many, many, many times here over the years. Yes, I do have your number.
That is why I stopped engaging with you until now. This is your turn as promised.
My skin is thick from all the years being here. And why I have become blunt in my arguments. Your refrain is that I am full of hatred, of everything. Please explain or not.
By the way, this is the thread that will kill the Forum on RP once and for all. See you on BlueSky, or FB, someplace where we can curate our friends list to only hear from people who think like us.
For the record, I'm FB friends with Beaker AND Hippiechick.
I'll miss Jrzy and Buzz.
That would suit me just fine. WIth the staff William has put together here... with all the wonderful improvements that have been put in place.... multiple channels, 2050 etc... surely it's time for a major upgrade of a community platform that could rival any out there, somehow capturing the real spirit of RP I've witnessed for 20 years, based first & foremost on the music. In my humble opinion, this Forum platform has run its course in its present form and has become archaic & dated. It could be so much better, and maybe we could be as well.
You let me shine, and I let you shine. You give me the benefit of the doubt when I fall short, I afford you the same indulgence. The forum works in its finest form, at its zenith, when these ideals hold.
Yes In both the micro and the macro. I love the open mic community because it is purely organic. All the levels of ability. Some faltering yet sturdy. Some brilliant yet insecure. There we are all cheerleaders. We truly care because of a basis in understanding.
Music. The best drug. Nothing compares. Except the bonds made over it.
Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth
Posted:
Nov 12, 2024 - 9:02pm
oldviolin wrote:
A good place to start would be respect.
You let me shine, and I let you shine. You give me the benefit of the doubt when I fall short, I afford you the same indulgence.The forum works in its finest form, at its zenith, when these ideals hold.
Being half-just isn't the same thing as being just.
Maybe you lurked the forum for awhile. I try not to assume. The dozen or so regular contributors that you observe here in the forum are but a small fraction of the formerly active posters here at Radio Paradise. There are many reasons for sure. Life for one. A large number left for the apparently malleable reasons you suggest. Polarization has a history here which has existed from early on. You could really have no idea of the energy of the past here on the forum. Very bright and creative people. Not that we all here now aren't, but my friends and long time community members here know of what I speak.
Wouldn't it be something to get some of that back? New folks don't seem to interact for long. Hopefully they take advantage of the music and share if the forum is a turn off.. The 2050 is absolutely a diamond mine of ideas. Just superb. The music. The space to voice opinions and creative thoughts or photos and art. There is much to appreciate about Radio Paradise. Infinitely much.
I've read it all. There have been toxins in the blood since I joined. I've had my own part from time to time. I'll reserve opinion on it all except to say the challenge to accept differing opinions without condescension and baiting is there for the taking. Beaker has strong opinions often fortified by strong affronts. He was often matched by the same. What am I saying? Nothing probably. I despise hypocrisy, especially my own. There's always conflict and competition. In some things that is probably good I think. This politics thing though...It doesn't seem to matter what the information provides, truth or lie or worse, a mix of both. Beaker is not evil. Evil is evil. It hides especially in hypocrisy. It makes it ok to mock and berate and devise personal dehumanization. It provides ultimately for bloodshed. I don't care if anyone agrees with me or not. I can read. I can hear. I can see clearly. It can get worse in this world. It damn well can and very well may, but it doesn't have to. A good place to start would be respect. Point blank.
I'd like to think I've gotten better at this internetting but no promises.
