[ ]   [ ]   [ ]                        [ ]      [ ]   [ ]

M.A.G.A. - R_P - Jun 25, 2022 - 4:25pm
 
RightWingNutZ - islander - Jun 25, 2022 - 3:01pm
 
Terrorist Watch! - Red_Dragon - Jun 25, 2022 - 2:58pm
 
Supreme Court Rulings - Isabeau - Jun 25, 2022 - 2:37pm
 
Hockey + Fantasy Hockey - GeneP59 - Jun 25, 2022 - 2:32pm
 
I like cheese - GeneP59 - Jun 25, 2022 - 2:29pm
 
SECESSION: The Republic of Texas? - Isabeau - Jun 25, 2022 - 2:20pm
 
Name My Band - Isabeau - Jun 25, 2022 - 2:11pm
 
Positive Thoughts and Prayer Requests - triskele - Jun 25, 2022 - 1:24pm
 
Counting with Pictures - ScottN - Jun 25, 2022 - 1:15pm
 
The Abortion Wars - R_P - Jun 25, 2022 - 11:52am
 
Love is... - oldviolin - Jun 25, 2022 - 10:42am
 
Live Music - oldviolin - Jun 25, 2022 - 10:28am
 
What is the meaning of this? - oldviolin - Jun 25, 2022 - 10:14am
 
Wordle - daily game - marko86 - Jun 25, 2022 - 10:12am
 
YouTube: Music-Videos - oldviolin - Jun 25, 2022 - 10:10am
 
Radio Paradise Comments - oldviolin - Jun 25, 2022 - 10:03am
 
Today in History - HarleyRider - Jun 25, 2022 - 9:56am
 
What Are You Going To Do Today? - Red_Dragon - Jun 25, 2022 - 9:52am
 
260,000 Posts in one thread? - oldviolin - Jun 25, 2022 - 9:25am
 
How's the weather? - GeneP59 - Jun 24, 2022 - 6:49pm
 
Things You Thought Today - GeneP59 - Jun 24, 2022 - 6:32pm
 
Bug Reports & Feature Requests - lminfo - Jun 24, 2022 - 5:12pm
 
Vinyl Only Spin List - KurtfromLaQuinta - Jun 24, 2022 - 4:11pm
 
Germany - R_P - Jun 24, 2022 - 2:38pm
 
Stuff you bought today. - ScottFromWyoming - Jun 24, 2022 - 10:25am
 
• • • The Once-a-Day • • •  - black321 - Jun 24, 2022 - 8:53am
 
Country Up The Bumpkin - oldviolin - Jun 24, 2022 - 8:42am
 
Memorials - Remembering Our Loved Ones - miamizsun - Jun 24, 2022 - 8:12am
 
Trump - islander - Jun 24, 2022 - 8:06am
 
Ukraine - R_P - Jun 23, 2022 - 11:35pm
 
Russia - NoEnzLefttoSplit - Jun 23, 2022 - 10:34pm
 
Tech & Science - miamizsun - Jun 23, 2022 - 5:38pm
 
Cryptic Posts - Leave Them Guessing - oldviolin - Jun 23, 2022 - 4:25pm
 
Upcoming concerts or shows you can't wait to see - ScottFromWyoming - Jun 23, 2022 - 3:46pm
 
Mixtape Culture Club - miamizsun - Jun 23, 2022 - 12:51pm
 
Pernicious Pious Proclivities Particularized Prodigiously - R_P - Jun 23, 2022 - 12:15pm
 
Outstanding Covers - Steely_D - Jun 23, 2022 - 8:24am
 
Summer vacation plans? - Skydog - Jun 23, 2022 - 5:46am
 
Baseball, anyone? - Skydog - Jun 23, 2022 - 5:25am
 
how do you feel right now? - NoEnzLefttoSplit - Jun 22, 2022 - 9:51pm
 
TV shows you watch - Steely_D - Jun 22, 2022 - 5:54pm
 
Crazy conspiracy theories - Steely_D - Jun 22, 2022 - 2:06pm
 
Talk Behind Their Backs Forum - VV - Jun 22, 2022 - 2:05pm
 
Mars Exploration Rover Mission Status - miamizsun - Jun 22, 2022 - 10:14am
 
Things I Read Today - NoEnzLefttoSplit - Jun 22, 2022 - 9:22am
 
2016 Elections - Skydog - Jun 22, 2022 - 8:28am
 
Sublime Soundtracks - Skydog - Jun 22, 2022 - 5:12am
 
• • •  What's For Dinner ? • • •  - ScottFromWyoming - Jun 21, 2022 - 8:14pm
 
Poetry Forum - miamizsun - Jun 21, 2022 - 6:43pm
 
Nuclear power - saviour or scourge? - miamizsun - Jun 21, 2022 - 6:34pm
 
What the world needs now is .... - Skydog - Jun 21, 2022 - 5:27pm
 
World & Eclectic Mix - GetBakedTonight - Jun 21, 2022 - 1:22am
 
Photography Forum - Your Own Photos - KurtfromLaQuinta - Jun 20, 2022 - 9:01pm
 
Happy Father's Day - Bill_J - Jun 20, 2022 - 8:23pm
 
Animal Resistance - Red_Dragon - Jun 20, 2022 - 3:58pm
 
Movie Recommendation - Manbird - Jun 20, 2022 - 2:46pm
 
Greetings from New York! - kcar - Jun 20, 2022 - 11:01am
 
Lyrics that strike a chord today... - oldviolin - Jun 20, 2022 - 9:48am
 
songs that ROCK! - oldviolin - Jun 20, 2022 - 9:43am
 
Fiverr Anyone? - ScottFromWyoming - Jun 20, 2022 - 8:21am
 
Art Show - Proclivities - Jun 20, 2022 - 7:39am
 
BillyGee's Greatest Segues - Skydog - Jun 20, 2022 - 4:05am
 
Climate Change - R_P - Jun 19, 2022 - 11:45am
 
New Recruit - KurtfromLaQuinta - Jun 18, 2022 - 4:37pm
 
What makes you smile? - KurtfromLaQuinta - Jun 18, 2022 - 4:21pm
 
Paul McCartney - KurtfromLaQuinta - Jun 18, 2022 - 4:19pm
 
Aliens: The Answer To Everything! - KurtfromLaQuinta - Jun 18, 2022 - 4:14pm
 
Yellowstone is in Wyoming Meetup • Aug. 11 2007 • YEA... - Steely_D - Jun 18, 2022 - 1:02pm
 
Last gas price paid? - PFM - Jun 18, 2022 - 8:19am
 
Gotta Get Your Drink On - Antigone - Jun 17, 2022 - 4:10pm
 
What Did You See Today? - Antigone - Jun 17, 2022 - 3:54pm
 
Coffee - ScottFromWyoming - Jun 17, 2022 - 3:42pm
 
Is there any DOG news out there? - black321 - Jun 17, 2022 - 1:07pm
 
Things that make you happy - Steely_D - Jun 17, 2022 - 11:58am
 
Index » Radio Paradise/General » General Discussion » Climate Change Page: Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 111, 112, 113, 114  Next
Post to this Topic
dionysius

dionysius Avatar

Location: The People's Republic of Austin
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 30, 2009 - 4:23pm

 miamizsun wrote:

I'm curious about the IPCCs credibility, I don't doubt that there is good data and good science involved, but obviously there is some evidence of collusion.
 
How "obviously"? If you have "evidence of collusion" (with whom?), then give us a link to it, or something. Who is the more credible and acknowledged source?

(edit:) Anyone seriously interested can go to: http://www.ipcc-data.org/ There are many, many folks working on this besides the hapless screwups in East Anglia.


miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 30, 2009 - 4:17pm

 dionysius wrote:

Hi Jeff!

No, not all all difficult to say. No one doubts that cycles in solar radiation occur, and that they have affected terrestrial climate in the past. But it takes many thousands of years for such variations in solar radiation or orbital attitude to achieve significant change. The relative speed of the warming points towards human causality. It's happening too quickly to be natural.

Read the Scientific American article, and its debunking of the solar radiation hypothesis:

"Astronomical phenomena are obvious natural factors to consider when trying to understand climate, particularly the brightness of the sun and details of the earth's orbit, because those seem to have been major drivers of the ice ages and other climate changes before the rise of industrial civilization. Climatologists, therefore, do take them into account in their models. But in defiance of the naysayers who want to chalk the recent warming up to natural cycles, there is insufficient evidence that enough extra solar energy is reaching our planet to account for the observed rise in global temperatures.

"The IPCC notes that between 1750 and 2005, the radiative forcing from the sun increased by 0.12 watts/square-meter-less than a tenth of the net forcings from human activities (1.6 W/m2). The largest uncertainty in that comparison comes from the estimated effects of aerosols in the atmosphere, which can variously shade the earth or warm it. Even granting the maximum uncertainties to these estimates, however, the increase in human influence on climate exceeds that of any solar variation."



 
I'm curious about the IPCCs credibility, I don't doubt that there is good data and good science involved, but obviously there is some evidence of collusion.

dionysius

dionysius Avatar

Location: The People's Republic of Austin
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 30, 2009 - 4:01pm

 miamizsun wrote:
First, I'd like to see this "de-politicized", most politicians are people we pay to lie to us. Politicians(both parties) should be out of this altogether. Opposing something because of another party's take on it makes zero sense.

I like others here want to see the evidence, all of it, and put it through the rigors. I'm also more concerned with pollution than climate change, we can deal with water better/easier than poison.

I'm wondering what caused the planet to go through its cycles before we were here(short of a cataclysmic event). We see glacial striations all over the place, glaciers receding and forming thousands of years ago, yet we weren't using fossil fuels to any extent then.

I tend to think that it is mostly caused by the sun(in all of its flux) and man plays a minor part, much less than hyped. Lots of articles like this which suggest warming coinciding between mars and earth for example, are solar induced phenomena.(this is an older article, but I think that this type of data may gaining traction)

"Man-made greenhouse warming has made a small contribution to the warming seen on Earth in recent years, but it cannot compete with the increase in solar irradiance," Abdussamatov said.

It is difficult to say.

Regards

 
Hi Jeff!

No, not all all difficult to say. No one doubts that cycles in solar radiation occur, and that they have affected terrestrial climate in the past. But it takes many thousands of years for such variations in solar radiation or orbital attitude to achieve significant change. The relative speed of the warming points towards human causality. It's happening too quickly to be natural.

Read the Scientific American article, and its debunking of the solar radiation hypothesis:

"Astronomical phenomena are obvious natural factors to consider when trying to understand climate, particularly the brightness of the sun and details of the earth's orbit, because those seem to have been major drivers of the ice ages and other climate changes before the rise of industrial civilization. Climatologists, therefore, do take them into account in their models. But in defiance of the naysayers who want to chalk the recent warming up to natural cycles, there is insufficient evidence that enough extra solar energy is reaching our planet to account for the observed rise in global temperatures.

"The IPCC notes that between 1750 and 2005, the radiative forcing from the sun increased by 0.12 watts/square-meter-less than a tenth of the net forcings from human activities (1.6 W/m2). The largest uncertainty in that comparison comes from the estimated effects of aerosols in the atmosphere, which can variously shade the earth or warm it. Even granting the maximum uncertainties to these estimates, however, the increase in human influence on climate exceeds that of any solar variation."




miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 30, 2009 - 3:50pm

First, I'd like to see this "de-politicized", most politicians are people we pay to lie to us. Politicians(both parties) should be out of this altogether. Opposing something because of another party's take on it makes zero sense.

I like others here want to see the evidence, all of it, and put it through the rigors. I'm also more concerned with pollution than climate change, we can deal with water better/easier than poison.

I'm wondering what caused the planet to go through its cycles before we were here(short of a cataclysmic event). We see glacial striations all over the place, glaciers receding and forming thousands of years ago, yet we weren't using fossil fuels to any extent then.

I tend to think that it is mostly caused by the sun(in all of its flux) and man plays a minor part, much less than hyped. Lots of articles like this which suggest warming coinciding between mars and earth for example, are solar induced phenomena.(this is an older article, but I think that this type of data may gaining traction)

"Man-made greenhouse warming has made a small contribution to the warming seen on Earth in recent years, but it cannot compete with the increase in solar irradiance," Abdussamatov said.

It is difficult to say.

Regards

I thought this was good.

Climate Change - the Scientific Debate


Welly

Welly Avatar

Location: Lotusland
Gender: Female


Posted: Nov 30, 2009 - 12:02pm

Interesting!


oldviolin

oldviolin Avatar

Location: esse quam videri
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 30, 2009 - 11:15am

 dionysius wrote:


What does this even mean?

 

Doesn't mean anything, Mark. Not a thing...I use big words to make myself sound smart. I said it was my opinion, but what do I know. Take it or leave it.
hippiechick

hippiechick Avatar

Location: topsy turvy land
Gender: Female


Posted: Nov 30, 2009 - 11:14am

 dionysius wrote:


The two are intimately related in a whole complex of bad human behaviors that damage the natural world. Increased CO2 in the atmosphere is itself a form of pollution that (for instance) increases the acidity of the oceans, dooming coral reefs and associated ecosystems. Deforestation is not itself pollution, but is the destruction of (a) habitat for many, many animal and plant species, and (b) one of our main carbon sinks, the destruction of which makes a bad problem worse. *Etc., etc.* History will not judge us kindly if we do not act soon and act decisively to curb our bad habits.

 
Everyone wants simple answers to complex questions. We are now paying for hundreds of years of bad behavior, financially, ecologically, educationally. Whatever the causes, we must stop our bad behavior anyway, if we want anything left for our grandchildren.

dionysius

dionysius Avatar

Location: The People's Republic of Austin
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 30, 2009 - 11:12am

 oldviolin wrote:

My point was / is, that if we can address the realities of pollution in general, then the arguable pretensions of the effects of human attributes to climate change will be addressed. My opinion.

"Here we go round the prickly pear..."
 

What does this even mean?
oldviolin

oldviolin Avatar

Location: esse quam videri
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 30, 2009 - 11:11am

 dionysius wrote:


The two are intimately related in a whole complex of bad human behaviors that damage the natural world. Increased CO2 in the atmosphere is itself a form of pollution that (for instance) increases the acidity of the oceans, dooming coral reefs and associated ecosystems. Deforestation is not itself pollution, but is the destruction of (a) habitat for many, many animal and plant species, and (b) one of our main carbon sinks, the destruction of which makes a bad problem worse. *Etc., etc.* History will not judge us kindly if we do not act soon and act decisively to curb our bad habits.

 
My point was / is, that if we can address the realities of pollution in general, then the arguable pretensions of the effects of human attributes to climate change will be addressed. My opinion.

"Here we go round the prickly pear..."

hobiejoe

hobiejoe Avatar

Location: Still in the tunnel, looking for the light.
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 30, 2009 - 10:59am

 dionysius wrote:
We must do something, after all, to help save the gharial.



 
{#Idea} ! Oh, of course......{#Good-vibes}
Welly

Welly Avatar

Location: Lotusland
Gender: Female


Posted: Nov 30, 2009 - 10:55am

 dionysius wrote: 
{#Clap}

dionysius

dionysius Avatar

Location: The People's Republic of Austin
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 30, 2009 - 10:54am

We must do something, after all, to help save the gharial.


dionysius

dionysius Avatar

Location: The People's Republic of Austin
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 30, 2009 - 10:50am

 oldviolin wrote:
My point was / is, that if we can address the realities of pollution in general, then the arguable pretensions of the effects of human attributes to climate change will be addressed. My opinion.
 

The two are intimately related in a whole complex of bad human behaviors that damage the natural world. Increased CO2 in the atmosphere is itself a form of pollution that (for instance) increases the acidity of the oceans, dooming coral reefs and associated ecosystems. Deforestation is not itself pollution, but is the destruction of (a) habitat for many, many animal and plant species, and (b) one of our main carbon sinks, the destruction of which makes a bad problem worse. *Etc., etc.* History will not judge us kindly if we do not act soon and act decisively to curb our bad habits.


Manbird

Manbird Avatar

Location: Owl Creek Bridge
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 30, 2009 - 10:49am

"   c   l   i   m   a   t   e       i   s       g   e   t   t   i   n   g       w   a   r   m   e   r   "


oldviolin

oldviolin Avatar

Location: esse quam videri
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 30, 2009 - 10:38am

My point was / is, that if we can address the realities of pollution in general, then the arguable pretensions of the effects of human attributes to climate change will be addressed. My opinion.

dionysius

dionysius Avatar

Location: The People's Republic of Austin
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 30, 2009 - 10:34am

 oldviolin wrote:

Pretty cut and dried. I honor your opinion. You must be emersed in the know...


 

I honor the opinions of the scientists who make their lives' work the study of climate. The overwhelming majority of them agree on anthropogenic climate change. If you're going to disagree with this majority, you had better bring better arguments than those dealt with in the Scientific American article. Read the article!
oldviolin

oldviolin Avatar

Location: esse quam videri
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 30, 2009 - 10:29am

 dionysius wrote:


There is no lack of consensus, really, The denial game is to manufacture one. There is no equivalence between the two "sides" in this matter—one is right and the other simply wrong.

 
Pretty cut and dried. I honor your opinion. You must be emersed in the know...



dionysius

dionysius Avatar

Location: The People's Republic of Austin
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 30, 2009 - 10:28am

 oldviolin wrote:

The extreme politics played with lack of consensus among dissenting opinions.

 

There is no lack of consensus, really, The denial game is to manufacture a seeming lack of consensus. There is no equivalence between the two "sides" in this matter—one is right and the other simply wrong.


oldviolin

oldviolin Avatar

Location: esse quam videri
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 30, 2009 - 10:26am

 dionysius wrote:


What do you base your opinion on?

 
The extreme politics played with lack of consensus among dissenting opinions.


dionysius

dionysius Avatar

Location: The People's Republic of Austin
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 30, 2009 - 10:22am

 oldviolin wrote:
Bogus
Pollution however- very much human and serious

IMO of course...

 

What do you base your opinion on?
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 111, 112, 113, 114  Next