Really? and do you think you would be better off? We haven't even touched on many other topics like what happens to companies (and their employees) in the new divided states - do they get to still exist, will they still exist. And if the overall economy somehow survives, who keeps the dollar? And do they really want it - 'backed by the full faith and force of the US government' has a pretty good heft, 'usually accepted in a loose amalgamation of waring fiefdoms' doesn't have the same ring to it. What about reciprocity? You can use your CA drivers license in Utah now, but what if it's good in Tennessee, but not Oklahoma and you want to make a cross country trip? And who is going to arbitrate this split? As noted, we can't agree on the time standard +/- 1 hour, so do you really think we are going to agree on who gets to split up trillions of dollars in assets?
It's a nice 12 second fantasy for dealing with 'those guys'. But the reality is that any kind of split is most likely going to be a war. And history doesn't have many wars where the outcome is great and no one gets hurt. Too bad we don't seem to be able to learn from history.
Location: Really deep in the heart of South California Gender:
Posted:
Dec 3, 2023 - 9:24pm
islander wrote:
*disclaimer - did not, will not watch this shit circus.
I do have a lot of comments from various sources on both sides of this. Everyone saw exactly what they wanted. This is just more of the same. No one can agree on basic starting points for a debate anymore, so debate itself is useless. Painful as it may be, I think the time to put up/ shut up may be near. I hope we can find a way through a moderately rancorous divorce with a minimum of death and destruction. I do think we are stronger together, and maybe a small civil war will make people realize that. But maybe it's just time to go to phase two of the American experiment - Conservative vs Progressive states and their respective policies. Let's get on with it and see where we are in a few decades.
As a resident of the fifth largest economy in the world, Iâd be kinda happy if we could offload the critical, unhelpful parts of the âunitedâ states. There was a suggestion at some point to split the nation into 2,5,7 new countries. One of the things I notice about Merica is that because the nation is so big, the issues faced in one area are irrelevant to another, and this makes legislation difficult.
Itâs one thing if people with differences learn to work together, but when one side of the equation is unable to move (belief in Godâs commands, need to reclaim the nation, etc) then there really doesnât seem to be a way to use negotiation to get along. For instance, if God is telling you whatever, youâre literally unable to compromise with those who want to follow unGodly paths.
Now Iâll invoke a metaphor I use a lot: if the lifeboat is sinking, you have to jettison the stuff/bodies thatâs gonna make you sink. If a significant proportion of the current USA thinks that they need to weaponize, rise up, and kill their opponents - better to let them have their empire of dirt.
I don't disagree with any of this sentiment - As a resident of Cascadia, I think our untethered western alliance would bring wealth and prosperity to all of our citizens. Although I still maintain *if* we could get past some of the current division we are stronger as a single union. I think I posted the 5 nations map here before or something very similar. It has merits, but the idea that we could peacefully agree on this kind of divorce is pretty far fetched. We can't agree on which standard to pick so we can end Daylight Saving time, do you really think we can agree who gets viable agricultural land and who gets oil wells? And what about water rights for that agriculture? I just don't see it happening without some kind of violence. Maybe that violence is inevitable? A lot of people seem to be eager for it, so let them have their blood. Maybe the faster and more violent the better to get it over with. But it will have long lasting impacts on every facet of our lives, and impact the entire globe for decades. It's not like you're just going to hang up a sign that says 'pacifica' at the border and everyone will go 'yeah, sure, why not'.
As a resident of the fifth largest economy in the world, Iâd be kinda happy if we could offload the critical, unhelpful parts of the âunitedâ states. There was a suggestion at some point to split the nation into 2,5,7 new countries. One of the things I notice about Merica is that because the nation is so big, the issues faced in one area are irrelevant to another, and this makes legislation difficult.
Itâs one thing if people with differences learn to work together, but when one side of the equation is unable to move (belief in Godâs commands, need to reclaim the nation, etc) then there really doesnât seem to be a way to use negotiation to get along. For instance, if God is telling you whatever, youâre literally unable to compromise with those who want to follow unGodly paths.
Now Iâll invoke a metaphor I use a lot: if the lifeboat is sinking, you have to jettison the stuff/bodies thatâs gonna make you sink. If a significant proportion of the current USA thinks that they need to weaponize, rise up, and kill their opponents - better to let them have their empire of dirt.
*disclaimer - did not, will not watch this shit circus.
I do have a lot of comments from various sources on both sides of this. Everyone saw exactly what they wanted. This is just more of the same. No one can agree on basic starting points for a debate anymore, so debate itself is useless. Painful as it may be, I think the time to put up/ shut up may be near. I hope we can find a way through a moderately rancorous divorce with a minimum of death and destruction. I do think we are stronger together, and maybe a small civil war will make people realize that. But maybe it's just time to go to phase two of the American experiment - Conservative vs Progressive states and their respective policies. Let's get on with it and see where we are in a few decades.
As a resident of the fifth largest economy in the world, Iâd be kinda happy if we could offload the critical, unhelpful parts of the âunitedâ states. There was a suggestion at some point to split the nation into 2,5,7 new countries. One of the things I notice about Merica is that because the nation is so big, the issues faced in one area are irrelevant to another, and this makes legislation difficult.
Itâs one thing if people with differences learn to work together, but when one side of the equation is unable to move (belief in Godâs commands, need to reclaim the nation, etc) then there really doesnât seem to be a way to use negotiation to get along. For instance, if God is telling you whatever, youâre literally unable to compromise with those who want to follow unGodly paths.
Now Iâll invoke a metaphor I use a lot: if the lifeboat is sinking, you have to jettison the stuff/bodies thatâs gonna make you sink. If a significant proportion of the current USA thinks that they need to weaponize, rise up, and kill their opponents - better to let them have their empire of dirt.
Really?
Ron answered the questions.
Mr. Newsom skirted every single question. And constantly repeated his very few talking points.
Not to mention he totally blew off any statistics.
I liked DeSantis "brown map".
I love California.
BUT... it's not easy living here.
Taxes are WAY out of control. Now matter how Gavin tried to spin it.
And people are leaving in droves. No matter how Gavin tried to spin it.
Along with the gas prices. And those taxes on it. We were very close to $6.00 a gallon a few months ago.
While the rest of the country was at least $2.00 a gallon cheaper.
No matter how Gavin tried to spin it.
He made me dizzy watching him.
*disclaimer - did not, will not watch this shit circus.
I do have a lot of comments from various sources on both sides of this. Everyone saw exactly what they wanted. This is just more of the same. No one can agree on basic starting points for a debate anymore, so debate itself is useless. Painful as it may be, I think the time to put up/ shut up may be near. I hope we can find a way through a moderately rancorous divorce with a minimum of death and destruction. I do think we are stronger together, and maybe a small civil war will make people realize that. But maybe it's just time to go to phase two of the American experiment - Conservative vs Progressive states and their respective policies. Let's get on with it and see where we are in a few decades.
Location: Really deep in the heart of South California Gender:
Posted:
Dec 2, 2023 - 7:27pm
Steely_D wrote:
Well, hereâs a quick summary. DeSantis got served.
Really?
Ron answered the questions.
Mr. Newsom skirted every single question. And constantly repeated his very few talking points.
Not to mention he totally blew off any statistics.
I liked DeSantis "brown map".
I love California.
BUT... it's not easy living here.
Taxes are WAY out of control. Now matter how Gavin tried to spin it.
And people are leaving in droves. No matter how Gavin tried to spin it.
Along with the gas prices. And those taxes on it. We were very close to $6.00 a gallon a few months ago.
While the rest of the country was at least $2.00 a gallon cheaper.
No matter how Gavin tried to spin it.
He made me dizzy watching him.
Yes, generally speaking homelessness is very definitely less of a problem in GOP led cities.
Generally speaking, people don't live in GOP-led cities.
"At the start of 2022, 76.1% of the population of the top 100 cities
lived in cities with Democratic mayors, and 16.23% lived in cities with
Republican mayors, based on 2020 population estimates."
Guess who was a county supervisor for 4 years at the time of the writing of that article and then a month later, the mayor of San Fran from 2004 to 2011 ?
You're meaning to say, in GOP-led cities, homelessness is less of a nation-wide problem?
That crisis seems as Umrican as a crisis can ever get.
Guess who was a county supervisor for 4 years at the time of the writing of that article and then a month later, the mayor of San Fran from 2004 to 2011 ?
You're meaning to say, in GOP-led cities, homelessness is less of a nation-wide problem?
That crisis seems as Umrican as a crisis can ever get. All hail to the economy!
So my take away from the great debate last night was this ...
"In California you have the freedom to defecate in public", DeSantis
Pretty much sums it up for me.
A new standard has been set. Coming soon to everywhere.
Well, hereâs a quick summary. DeSantis got served.
And, CA does indeed precede the rest of the nation. We should all be concerned about the widespread separation of wealth into multibillionaires vs people who canât get by.
We should all be concerned about the scourge of fentanyl and other drugs destroying lives and forcing people to live on the streets (where they have no access to hygiene, like this points out).
We should all be concerned about the USA, not just CA. Unless you want CA to take its fourth largest economy in the world and move along. Which isnât a bad idea.
Good luck Mississippi and Texas and Louisianaâ¦
âFreedomâ seems to mean âselfish behaviorâ to a lot of people. The sooner the states and its population ignores the separatist, racist messages that cause us to abandon our neighbors, the better. Less freedom; more responsibility.
Guess who was a county supervisor for 4 years at the time of the writing of that article and then a month later, the mayor of San Fran from 2004 to 2011 ?
F#$king tragedy. 20 y.a, and I would wager most in that story are dead and since been more than replaced by folks who were babies or not even born at the time of that article.
We could have saved many from that fate if we invested in our people - schools, health/mental care...
Instead we sent out trillions over the past three years so people could buy more crap at Macy's and Dick's Sporting Goods.
But let's complain about poop on the streets.
You are 100% right that we don't generate the electricity we need for the future (cars or otherwise) cleanly. However setting goals to get there is important, not just throw up our hands and say it can't be done. This is America, we were able to accomplish extraordinary things in the past (Interstate highway system, cities, space programs). Are we no longer capable of such great things? We can find ways to get thru the long process of regulations that stand in the way of progress. We can fight back on the disinformation that pervades our society that is also a road block to progress.
Pointing to the comments about smog and the forum category we are in here, California set the higher standards to fight pollution and the rest of the country followed. If they want to put forth lofty and important goals we should get behind them, not in front of them. Waiting around for the infrastructure to come first isn't going to help the situation we are in. They need to develop hand in hand in order for California and subsequently America to succeed.
