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Index » Radio Paradise/General » General Discussion » As California Goes, So Goes The Rest Of The Country Page: 1, 2, 3 ... 11, 12, 13  Next
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islander

islander Avatar

Location: West coast somewhere
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 4, 2023 - 4:02pm

 KurtfromLaQuinta wrote:
I was being sarcastic.
I've lived here all my life and am willing to put up with the good and bad.
Frankly, I haven't seen anyplace that's that much better to make a change.
If you ignore the people who live along the coast.. those really rich liberal ones who complain about all the really rich people 
this is really a nice place to live.




Maybe some of those people have played the game a little deeper and seen the problem with the end. Even some of the REALLY rich ones: 
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/super-rich-early-amazon-investor-191300929.html
KurtfromLaQuinta

KurtfromLaQuinta Avatar

Location: Really deep in the heart of South California
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 4, 2023 - 2:01pm

 islander wrote:


Really? and do you think you would be better off?  We haven't even touched on many other topics like what happens to companies (and their employees) in the new divided states - do they get to still exist, will they still exist. And if the overall economy somehow survives, who keeps the dollar? And do they really want it - 'backed by the full faith and force of the US government' has a pretty good heft, 'usually accepted in a loose amalgamation of waring fiefdoms' doesn't have the same ring to it. What about reciprocity? You can use your CA drivers license in Utah now, but what if it's good in Tennessee, but not Oklahoma and you want to make a cross country trip?  And who is going to arbitrate this split?  As noted, we can't agree on the time standard +/- 1 hour, so do you really think we are going to agree on who gets to split up trillions of dollars in assets?

It's a nice 12 second fantasy for dealing with 'those guys'. But the reality is that any kind of split is most likely going to be a war. And history doesn't have many wars where the outcome is great and no one gets hurt.  Too bad we don't seem to be able to learn from history.
I was being sarcastic.
I've lived here all my life and am willing to put up with the good and bad.
Frankly, I haven't seen anyplace that's that much better to make a change.
If you ignore the people who live along the coast.. those really rich liberal ones who complain about all the really rich people 
this is really a nice place to live.


KurtfromLaQuinta

KurtfromLaQuinta Avatar

Location: Really deep in the heart of South California
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 4, 2023 - 1:55pm


Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 4, 2023 - 1:25pm

 islander wrote:


Really? and do you think you would be better off?  We haven't even touched on many other topics like what happens to companies (and their employees) in the new divided states - do they get to still exist, will they still exist. And if the overall economy somehow survives, who keeps the dollar? And do they really want it - 'backed by the full faith and force of the US government' has a pretty good heft, 'usually accepted in a loose amalgamation of waring fiefdoms' doesn't have the same ring to it. What about reciprocity? You can use your CA drivers license in Utah now, but what if it's good in Tennessee, but not Oklahoma and you want to make a cross country trip?  And who is going to arbitrate this split?  As noted, we can't agree on the time standard +/- 1 hour, so do you really think we are going to agree on who gets to split up trillions of dollars in assets?

It's a nice 12 second fantasy for dealing with 'those guys'. But the reality is that any kind of split is most likely going to be a war. And history doesn't have many wars where the outcome is great and no one gets hurt.  Too bad we don't seem to be able to learn from history.


Well, you don’t want perfect to be the enemy of good.
Just like in Europe, it’s completely possible to have small nations adjacent and they reach agreements to make sure that commerce and travel all continue. And the American dollar could still function like the Euro. No sense in breaking it into smaller currencies - although it would be an interesting experiment to have one small nation (Nevada!) function with nothing but Bitcoin, right?
islander

islander Avatar

Location: West coast somewhere
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 4, 2023 - 8:18am

 black321 wrote:


I understand your venting here, and not advocating. 
Thankfully (?) this isn't being discussed...but maybe if we did consider this end and actually had some "thought" to what we are all fighting over, common ground might become visible once again!?



You are right. I think maybe it should be discussed a bit more just so people do realize what the 'good' parts of the union are. Clean water, freedom to travel and work, ability to go to your church on sunday... all these things get taken for granted. But everyone is quick to go to 'civil war' when they don't get their way.  The outcome of that isn't we win or you win, but EVERYTHING gets broken and whoever survives gets to try and rebuild something from the smoldering pile of what's left. 

But how do we get back to common ground?  There is severe disagreement on who 'won' this debate - both sides think they won handily (and apparently both sides think the other side cheated).   Trump and Biden are the candidates*, and the tribes are basically Trump and not Trump. Not much wiggle room in between. The strategy of both sides is to play to the minutia of the rules and win the tiny sliver of available electoral votes (or maybe change the way they are apportioned if you don't win them). No one is really looking to win the majority of votes or appeal to the most people.


*~8:00 am 12/4/23, subject to change. 
black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 4, 2023 - 6:41am

 islander wrote:


Really? and do you think you would be better off?  We haven't even touched on many other topics like what happens to companies (and their employees) in the new divided states - do they get to still exist, will they still exist. And if the overall economy somehow survives, who keeps the dollar? And do they really want it - 'backed by the full faith and force of the US government' has a pretty good heft, 'usually accepted in a loose amalgamation of waring fiefdoms' doesn't have the same ring to it. What about reciprocity? You can use your CA drivers license in Utah now, but what if it's good in Tennessee, but not Oklahoma and you want to make a cross country trip?  And who is going to arbitrate this split?  As noted, we can't agree on the time standard +/- 1 hour, so do you really think we are going to agree on who gets to split up trillions of dollars in assets?

It's a nice 12 second fantasy for dealing with 'those guys'. But the reality is that any kind of split is most likely going to be a war. And history doesn't have many wars where the outcome is great and no one gets hurt.  Too bad we don't seem to be able to learn from history.


I understand your venting here, and not advocating. 
Thankfully (?) this isn't being discussed...but maybe if we did consider this end and actually had some "thought" to what we are all fighting over, common ground might become visible once again!?

islander

islander Avatar

Location: West coast somewhere
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 4, 2023 - 6:19am

 KurtfromLaQuinta wrote:

Sounds good to me.
Except I'd have to move.




Really? and do you think you would be better off?  We haven't even touched on many other topics like what happens to companies (and their employees) in the new divided states - do they get to still exist, will they still exist. And if the overall economy somehow survives, who keeps the dollar? And do they really want it - 'backed by the full faith and force of the US government' has a pretty good heft, 'usually accepted in a loose amalgamation of waring fiefdoms' doesn't have the same ring to it. What about reciprocity? You can use your CA drivers license in Utah now, but what if it's good in Tennessee, but not Oklahoma and you want to make a cross country trip?  And who is going to arbitrate this split?  As noted, we can't agree on the time standard +/- 1 hour, so do you really think we are going to agree on who gets to split up trillions of dollars in assets?

It's a nice 12 second fantasy for dealing with 'those guys'. But the reality is that any kind of split is most likely going to be a war. And history doesn't have many wars where the outcome is great and no one gets hurt.  Too bad we don't seem to be able to learn from history.
KurtfromLaQuinta

KurtfromLaQuinta Avatar

Location: Really deep in the heart of South California
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 3, 2023 - 9:24pm

 islander wrote:


*disclaimer - did not, will not watch this shit circus. 

I do have a lot of comments from various sources on both sides of this. Everyone saw exactly what they wanted.   This is just more of the same. No one can agree on basic starting points for a debate anymore, so debate itself is useless. Painful as it may be, I think the time to put up/ shut up may be near. I hope we can find a way through a moderately rancorous divorce with a minimum of death and destruction. I do think we are stronger together, and maybe a small civil war will make people realize that. But maybe it's just time to go to phase two of the American experiment - Conservative vs Progressive  states and their respective policies. Let's get on with it and see where we are in a few decades.

Sounds good to me.
Except I'd have to move.


islander

islander Avatar

Location: West coast somewhere
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 3, 2023 - 5:15pm

 Steely_D wrote:


As a resident of the fifth largest economy in the world, I’d be kinda happy if we could offload the critical, unhelpful parts of the “united” states. There was a suggestion at some point to split the nation into 2,5,7 new countries. One of the things I notice about Merica is that because the nation is so big, the issues faced in one area are irrelevant to another, and this makes legislation difficult.

It’s one thing if people with differences learn to work together, but when one side of the equation is unable to move (belief in God’s commands, need to reclaim the nation, etc) then there really doesn’t seem to be a way to use negotiation to get along. For instance, if God is telling you whatever, you’re literally unable to compromise with those who want to follow unGodly paths.

Now I’ll invoke a metaphor I use a lot: if the lifeboat is sinking, you have to jettison the stuff/bodies that’s gonna make you sink. If a significant proportion of the current USA thinks that they need to weaponize, rise up, and kill their opponents - better to let them have their empire of dirt.



I don't disagree with any of this sentiment - As a resident of Cascadia, I think our untethered western alliance would bring wealth and prosperity to all of our citizens. Although I still maintain *if* we could get past some of the current division we are stronger as a single union. I think I posted the 5 nations map here before or something very similar. It has merits, but the idea that we could peacefully agree on this kind of divorce is pretty far fetched. We can't agree on which standard to pick so we can end Daylight Saving time, do you really think we can agree who gets viable agricultural land and who gets oil wells? And what about water rights for that agriculture? I just don't see it happening without some kind of violence.  Maybe that violence is inevitable?  A lot of people seem to be eager for it, so let them have their blood. Maybe the faster and more violent the better to get it over with. But it will have long lasting impacts on every facet of our lives, and impact the entire globe for decades. It's not like you're just going to hang up a sign that says 'pacifica' at the border and everyone will go 'yeah, sure, why not'. 
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar

Location: Dumbf*ckistan


Posted: Dec 3, 2023 - 4:05pm

 Steely_D wrote:


As a resident of the fifth largest economy in the world, I’d be kinda happy if we could offload the critical, unhelpful parts of the “united” states. There was a suggestion at some point to split the nation into 2,5,7 new countries. One of the things I notice about Merica is that because the nation is so big, the issues faced in one area are irrelevant to another, and this makes legislation difficult.

It’s one thing if people with differences learn to work together, but when one side of the equation is unable to move (belief in God’s commands, need to reclaim the nation, etc) then there really doesn’t seem to be a way to use negotiation to get along. For instance, if God is telling you whatever, you’re literally unable to compromise with those who want to follow unGodly paths.

Now I’ll invoke a metaphor I use a lot: if the lifeboat is sinking, you have to jettison the stuff/bodies that’s gonna make you sink. If a significant proportion of the current USA thinks that they need to weaponize, rise up, and kill their opponents - better to let them have their empire of dirt.



We'll be moving.
Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 3, 2023 - 3:13pm

 islander wrote:


*disclaimer - did not, will not watch this shit circus. 

I do have a lot of comments from various sources on both sides of this. Everyone saw exactly what they wanted.   This is just more of the same. No one can agree on basic starting points for a debate anymore, so debate itself is useless. Painful as it may be, I think the time to put up/ shut up may be near. I hope we can find a way through a moderately rancorous divorce with a minimum of death and destruction. I do think we are stronger together, and maybe a small civil war will make people realize that. But maybe it's just time to go to phase two of the American experiment - Conservative vs Progressive  states and their respective policies. Let's get on with it and see where we are in a few decades.


As a resident of the fifth largest economy in the world, I’d be kinda happy if we could offload the critical, unhelpful parts of the “united” states. There was a suggestion at some point to split the nation into 2,5,7 new countries. One of the things I notice about Merica is that because the nation is so big, the issues faced in one area are irrelevant to another, and this makes legislation difficult.

It’s one thing if people with differences learn to work together, but when one side of the equation is unable to move (belief in God’s commands, need to reclaim the nation, etc) then there really doesn’t seem to be a way to use negotiation to get along. For instance, if God is telling you whatever, you’re literally unable to compromise with those who want to follow unGodly paths.

Now I’ll invoke a metaphor I use a lot: if the lifeboat is sinking, you have to jettison the stuff/bodies that’s gonna make you sink. If a significant proportion of the current USA thinks that they need to weaponize, rise up, and kill their opponents - better to let them have their empire of dirt.

islander

islander Avatar

Location: West coast somewhere
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 3, 2023 - 9:59am

 KurtfromLaQuinta wrote:
Really?
Ron answered the questions.
Mr. Newsom skirted every   single   question. And constantly repeated his very few talking points.
Not to mention he totally blew off any statistics.
I liked DeSantis "brown map". 

I love California.
BUT... it's not easy living here.
Taxes are WAY out of control. Now matter how Gavin tried to spin it.
And people are leaving in droves. No matter how Gavin tried to spin it.
Along with the gas prices. And those taxes on it. We were very close to $6.00 a gallon a few months ago.
While the rest of the country was at least $2.00 a gallon cheaper.
No matter how Gavin tried to spin it.
He made me dizzy watching him.







*disclaimer - did not, will not watch this shit circus. 

I do have a lot of comments from various sources on both sides of this. Everyone saw exactly what they wanted.   This is just more of the same. No one can agree on basic starting points for a debate anymore, so debate itself is useless. Painful as it may be, I think the time to put up/ shut up may be near. I hope we can find a way through a moderately rancorous divorce with a minimum of death and destruction. I do think we are stronger together, and maybe a small civil war will make people realize that. But maybe it's just time to go to phase two of the American experiment - Conservative vs Progressive  states and their respective policies. Let's get on with it and see where we are in a few decades.
KurtfromLaQuinta

KurtfromLaQuinta Avatar

Location: Really deep in the heart of South California
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 2, 2023 - 7:27pm

 Steely_D wrote:


Well, here’s a quick summary. DeSantis got served. 





Really?
Ron answered the questions.
Mr. Newsom skirted every   single   question. And constantly repeated his very few talking points.
Not to mention he totally blew off any statistics.
I liked DeSantis "brown map". 

I love California.
BUT... it's not easy living here.
Taxes are WAY out of control. Now matter how Gavin tried to spin it.
And people are leaving in droves. No matter how Gavin tried to spin it.
Along with the gas prices. And those taxes on it. We were very close to $6.00 a gallon a few months ago.
While the rest of the country was at least $2.00 a gallon cheaper.
No matter how Gavin tried to spin it.
He made me dizzy watching him.





rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 2, 2023 - 6:15am

 kurtster wrote:

Yes, generally speaking homelessness is very definitely less of a problem in GOP led cities.

Generally speaking, people don't live in GOP-led cities.

"At the start of 2022, 76.1% of the population of the top 100 cities lived in cities with Democratic mayors, and 16.23% lived in cities with Republican mayors, based on 2020 population estimates."


link
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 1, 2023 - 7:52pm

 thisbody wrote:
 kurtster wrote:
Guess who was a county supervisor for 4 years at the time of the writing of that article and then a month later, the mayor of San Fran from 2004 to 2011 ?

You're meaning to say, in GOP-led cities, homelessness is less of a nation-wide problem?

That crisis seems as Umrican as a crisis can ever get. 

All hail to the economy! Frosty the snowman fighting Rudolph the reindeer won't solve anything, me thinks.
 
Yes, generally speaking homelessness is very definitely less of a problem in GOP led cities.
thisbody

thisbody Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 1, 2023 - 1:32pm

 kurtster wrote:
Guess who was a county supervisor for 4 years at the time of the writing of that article and then a month later, the mayor of San Fran from 2004 to 2011 ?

You're meaning to say, in GOP-led cities, homelessness is less of a nation-wide problem?

That crisis seems as Umrican as a crisis can ever get.  All hail to the economy!

Frosty the snowman fighting Rudolph the reindeer won't solve anything, me thinks.
Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 1, 2023 - 1:01pm

 kurtster wrote:

So my take away from the great debate last night was this ...

"In California you have the freedom to defecate in public", DeSantis

Pretty much sums it up for me. 

A new standard has been set.  Coming soon to everywhere.



Well, here’s a quick summary. DeSantis got served. 
And, CA does indeed precede the rest of the nation. We should all be concerned about the widespread separation of wealth into multibillionaires vs people who can’t get by.

We should all be concerned about the scourge of fentanyl and other drugs destroying lives and forcing people to live on the streets (where they have no access to hygiene, like this points out).

We should all be concerned about the USA, not just CA. Unless you want CA to take its fourth largest economy in the world and move along. Which isn’t a bad idea.
Good luck Mississippi and Texas and Louisiana… 

“Freedom” seems to mean “selfish behavior” to a lot of people. The sooner the states and its population ignores the separatist, racist messages that cause us to abandon our neighbors, the better. Less freedom; more responsibility.




kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 1, 2023 - 8:53am

 thisbody wrote: 
Guess who was a county supervisor for 4 years at the time of the writing of that article and then a month later, the mayor of San Fran from 2004 to 2011 ?
black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 1, 2023 - 8:05am

 thisbody wrote:

F#$king tragedy. 20 y.a, and I would wager most in that story are dead and since been more than replaced by folks who were babies or not even born at the time of that article.
We could have saved many from that fate if we invested in our people - schools, health/mental care...
Instead we sent out trillions over the past three years so people could buy more crap at Macy's and Dick's Sporting Goods.
But let's complain about poop on the streets.

thisbody

thisbody Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 1, 2023 - 7:57am

San Francisco’s Homelessness Quagmire (20 yrs ago today)
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