No, you're right, I don't give a shit about Ilan Omar because she's not my representative. If the good people of her Minnesota district are satisfied with her, that's fine with me.
Funny cuz in the same way, the good people of this country elected Trump, yet you do have a problem with that and that is not fine with you.
But let's talk about you again. You're here pointing at all sorts of technicalities and "let's let the wheels of justice turn at their own pace" in defense of a guy who clearly—very very clearly—raped babies. You're not even really disputing that, you're just saying "we don't know for sure because a million documents blah blah" and "nobody knows why a case might be voluntarily dismissed without prejudice" so HMM what could ever make her drop the case? It's sure a mystery. By the way did Epstein kill himself or no?
So you want to make it about me. The standard is proof beyond a reasonable doubt. You have no proof, just a pile of allegations, but that is proof enough for you. So much for due process.
No, I think that you killed Epstein because you wanted him dead.
I guess that you do not listen to yourself or read what you write.
Case 1:16-cv-04642-RA, a civil lawsuit filed by "Jane Doe" (later identified as Katie Johnson) against Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein alleging sexual abuse, wasvoluntarily dismissed without prejudice by the plaintiff on September 16, 2016, meaning it ended without a judgment on the merits, but the allegations remain part of court records. The lawsuit, brought in the SDNY, claimed Trump sexually assaulted her as a minor, with claims resurfacing amidst Epstein's fallout and new document releases, though evidence remains disputed and the plaintiff's identity protected.
It is an allegation only. Never went to trial. While very damning on face value, has never been tried, proven and ruled upon as a real incident.
While you are willing to take it as a proven fact, I can not.
Edit : Let's take this a step further. The case against Omar marrying her brother to allow him to enter the country and gain citizenship since we have recently discussed it. I presented documents and you said that it did not matter as it was just an allegation and was unproven. The same applies here with the case you brought up with Trump. Allegations, yes. Unproven as was was your defense of Omar. A double standard on your part ?
No, you're right, I don't give a shit about Ilan Omar because she's not my representative. If the good people of her Minnesota district are satisfied with her, that's fine with me.
But let's talk about you again. You're here pointing at all sorts of technicalities and "let's let the wheels of justice turn at their own pace" in defense of a guy who clearlyâvery very clearlyâraped babies. You're not even really disputing that, you're just saying "we don't know for sure because a million documents blah blah" and "nobody knows why a case might be voluntarily dismissed without prejudice" so HMM what could ever make her drop the case? It's sure a mystery. By the way did Epstein kill himself or no?
You are correct that the investigatory file includes as part of the record items that may not be proven at trial or may not even be offered or admissible at trial.
Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth
Posted:
Dec 26, 2025 - 8:54pm
kurtster wrote:
What did I get wrong ?
You are correct that the investigatory file includes as part of the record items that may not be proven at trial or may not even be offered or admissible at trial.
Edit : Let's take this a step further. The case against Omar marrying her brother to allow him to enter the country and gain citizenship since we have recently discussed it. I presented documents and you said that it did not matter as it was just an allegation and was unproven. The same applies here with the case you brought up with Trump. Allegations, yes. Unproven as was was your defense of Omar. A double standard on your part ?
I'm not sure what documents you posted, but I checked several fact checking sites and all said some version of this:
Bottom line: multiple established factâchecks and news organizations conclude there is no credible, publicly available evidence that Ilhan Omar married a brother to obtain U.S. citizenship; the allegation is sustained in some outlets and by eyewitness claims, but those accounts have not produced official findings that would substantiate the charge
So no, not a double standard. One is a claim that never made it to trial due to threats and coercion (and possibly improper influence), one is a claim that doesn't seem to have any merit.
I'm glad that you chimed in. I would like your take on my earlier statement (that I believe you may have missed) that drew a lot of criticism.
I would like your thoughts on what I got wrong about the process that I tried to explain.
. kurtster wrote:
Pardon me for wasting my time saying the following, but ...
This shows how ignorant you are about the government in general. Anything received by an office or agency is included in the record, regardless of credibility at the time of receipt. The veracity is established after receipt if need be, but regardless of veracity, the item is not removed from the file. It remains part of the complete record.
You could have wrote a letter yourself and have had it included in the file had you done so, regardless of content.
Other examples of this kind of behaviour is what is known as SWATTING. Or reports to Children's Services of abuse by a party with malevolent intent towards the parent(s). These reports must be taken seriously and acted on. They are part of the total record regardless of factuality.
Case 1:16-cv-04642-RA, a civil lawsuit filed by "Jane Doe" (later identified as Katie Johnson) against Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein alleging sexual abuse, wasvoluntarily dismissed without prejudice by the plaintiff on September 16, 2016, meaning it ended without a judgment on the merits, but the allegations remain part of court records. The lawsuit, brought in the SDNY, claimed Trump sexually assaulted her as a minor, with claims resurfacing amidst Epstein's fallout and new document releases, though evidence remains disputed and the plaintiff's identity protected.
It is an allegation only. Never went to trial. While very damning on face value, has never been tried, proven and ruled upon as a real incident.
While you are willing to take it as a proven fact, I can not.
Edit : Let's take this a step further. The case against Omar marrying her brother to allow him to enter the country and gain citizenship since we have recently discussed it. I presented documents and you said that it did not matter as it was just an allegation and was unproven. The same applies here with the case you brought up with Trump. Allegations, yes. Unproven as was was your defense of Omar. A double standard on your part ?
Nah, you already know, you just don't want to face that part of the story. Keep picking the cherries as you find them, the bottom of that bowl is rotten as hell though, best of luck to you.
You tell me. It did not go to trial, that is what matters.
Nah, you already know, you just don't want to face that part of the story. Keep picking the cherries as you find them, the bottom of that bowl is rotten as hell though, best of luck to you.
If you owned a monkey, and that monkey was adept at being a pickpocket - but sometimes the monkey would screech and even fling pooâ¦would you get rid of the monkey or just tolerate him so he could keep stealing for you?
Imagine having a billion dollars and still thinking you needed to put up with a poo flinging monkey. If nothing else, it's proof that money doesn't buy happiness.
Case 1:16-cv-04642-RA, a civil lawsuit filed by "Jane Doe" (later identified as Katie Johnson) against Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein alleging sexual abuse, wasvoluntarily dismissed without prejudice by the plaintiff on September 16, 2016, meaning it ended without a judgment on the merits, but the allegations remain part of court records. The lawsuit, brought in the SDNY, claimed Trump sexually assaulted her as a minor, with claims resurfacing amidst Epstein's fallout and new document releases, though evidence remains disputed and the plaintiff's identity protected.
It is an allegation only. Never went to trial. While very damning on face value, has never been tried, proven and ruled upon as a real incident.
While you are willing to take it as a proven fact, I can not.
What were the circumstances that prevented it from going to trial?
Case 1:16-cv-04642-RA, a civil lawsuit filed by "Jane Doe" (later identified as Katie Johnson) against Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein alleging sexual abuse, wasvoluntarily dismissed without prejudice by the plaintiff on September 16, 2016, meaning it ended without a judgment on the merits, but the allegations remain part of court records. The lawsuit, brought in the SDNY, claimed Trump sexually assaulted her as a minor, with claims resurfacing amidst Epstein's fallout and new document releases, though evidence remains disputed and the plaintiff's identity protected.
It is an allegation only. Never went to trial. While very damning on face value, has never been tried, proven and ruled upon as a real incident.
While you are willing to take it as a proven fact, I can not.
Edit : Let's take this a step further. The case against Omar marrying her brother to allow him to enter the country and gain citizenship since we have recently discussed it. I presented documents and you said that it did not matter as it was just an allegation and was unproven. The same applies here with the case you brought up with Trump. Allegations, yes. Unproven as was was your defense of Omar. A double standard on your part ?
1980s - Trump and Epstein met around the time Trump bought Mar-a-Lago in 1985, when Epstein was also living in Palm Beach, according to Trump, who told New York magazine in 2002 he had known Epstein for â15 years,â calling him a âterrific guy,â and adding âit is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side.â
1989 - Trump and Epstein went to Trumpâs casino in Atlantic City, New Jersey, accompanied by young womenâat least one of whom was underageâaccording to the hotel and casinoâs then-president Jack OâConnell, who said Trump told him, âYeah, Jeffrey likes them young.â
1992 - Trump and Epstein were spotted laughing together at a party Trump threw at Mar-a-Lago, according to NBC footage of the event unearthed in 2019.
Epstein attended Trumpâs holiday party at the Plaza Hotel, according to an attendee who told the New York Times she ran into Epstein at the party.
1993 - At a âcalendar girlâ party at Mar-a-Lago where Trump invited just two other guests, Florida businessman George Houraney and Epstein, Houraneyâs girlfriend at the time, Jill Harth, said Trump forcibly kissed and fondled her and restrained her from leaving a bedroom. Harth also said Trump crawled into bed with another 22-year-old woman at the party, according to a 1997 lawsuit Trump settled with Harth (he has denied her allegations), The New York Times reported.
Photos released by CNN showed Epstein attended Trumpâs 1993 wedding to Marla Maplesâhis second wifeâat the Plaza Hotel in New York. A few months before the wedding, another photo published by CNN showed Epstein and Trump together at the opening of the Harley Davidson Cafe in New York.
Trump groped model Stacey Williams when Epstein brought her to Trump Tower, she alleged in a 2024 interview with The New York Times(Trumpâs 2024 campaign denied the allegations as âunequivocally falseâ and politically motivated).
1994 - Trump flew on one of Epsteinâs private jets, according to the flight logs.
Epstein took a 14-year-old girl to visit Trump at Mar-a-Lago, the woman later alleged anonymously in a civil lawsuit, with Epstein asking Trump, âThis is a good one, right?â; Trump allegedly âsmiled and noddedâ in response.
Handwritten notes kept by an Epstein assistant and reported by the Times show Trump was a âregular presenceâ in Epsteinâs life during this time, with notes documenting discussions about Mar-a-Lago parties, calls to Trump, and, in one case, saying to invite Trump to a party only if his ex-wife Ivana Trump declined to attend.
Mid-to-Late 1990s - Epstein and Trump âtalked at least three times a weekâ during this period and Trump met at Epsteinâs office at least several times, the financierâs former assistants told the Times, with Epsteinâs brother Mark Epstein also saying his brother told him Trump âvisited him frequently.â
1995 -Epstein reportedly called Maria Farmerâwho has accused Epstein and Maxwell of sexual assaultâto his New York office late at night, where Trump then arrived and âstarted to hover overâ Farmer, who was in her mid-20s at the time, and âstared at her bare legsâ before Epstein said, âNo, no. Sheâs not here for you,â Farmer told the FBI, according to The New York Times.
Trump took another flight on an Epstein jet, the flight logs say.
1997 - Trump signed a note to Epstein in his book, âTrump: The Art of the Comeback,â that said âTo JeffâYou are the greatest!â according to The New York Times.
Trump took a seventh flight on one of Epsteinâs jets.
Trump and Epstein were photographed standing near each other at a Victoriaâs Secret âAngelsâ party, according to a Getty image of Trump posing with model Ingrid Seynhaeve that shows Epstein in the background.
1999 - A video released by CNN showed Trump and Epstein laughing and chatting with each other at another Victoriaâs Secret event.
2000 - Epstein victim Virginia Giuffre was working at Trumpâs Mar-a-Lago resort when she was recruited by Maxwell to work as Epsteinâs personal masseuse and was groomed by Epstein and Maxwell to provide sexual services for Epstein and his wealthy circle, according to a deposition Giuffre gave that was made public in 2019.
2001 - Epstein was reportedly âannoyedâ after Trump called him and told an employee the now-president âwas short on cash and wanted a ride on Mr. Epsteinâs plane,â the employee told the Times.
2003 - Trump allegedly gave Epstein a birthday card that said âmay every day be another wonderful secret,â according to a July 2025 Wall Street Journal report, which the president denied and sued the paper over; The New York Times later reported Trump was on a list of contributors for the book of birthday cards that the letter allegedly appeared in.
2004 - Trump appeared to mention Epstein in a book of business advice, referring to a person as âthe mysterious Jeffreyâ and writing, âHeâs one of the few people I know who can get by on just a first name.â
Trump and Epstein had a falling out when Trump outbid him for a Palm Beach mansion, according to a Washington Post report.
Pre-2006 - Trump and Epstein appeared in a photo with singer James Brown, the Times reported (the photo is undated, but Brown died in 2006).
2007 - Trumpâs Mar-a-Lago club claimed Epstein had been banned from the property, with a source telling Page Six that Epstein âwould use the spa to try to procure girlsâ and asked one 18-year-old masseuse to âdo things,â adding, âHer father found out about it and went absolutely ape-.â
2009 - Bradley J. Edwards, a lawyer who represented Epstein victims, wrote in his memoir that he spoke with Trump by phone about Epstein in 2009, with Trump describing the financier as a âbusiness acquaintanceâ and saying he had last seen him at a business meeting at Epsteinâs home before sexual abuse allegations against Epstein had become public.
2010 -Resurfaced video, posted to social media by the progressive outlet MeidasTouch, showed Epstein confirming he socialized with Trump and declining to answer when asked if he has ever socialized with Trump âin the presence of females under the age of 18.â
2011 - Epstein told Maxwell in one of the emails released by House Democrats that Trump âspent hours at my houseâ with an unnamed victim and described Trump as the âdog that hasnât barked,â noting Trump âhas never once been mentionedâ in stories about Epsteinâs controversies.
2015 - Trumpâs name appeared circled in Epsteinâs âlittle black bookâ of 1,571 personal contacts, which spanned 97 pages of names, numbers and addresses of Epsteinâs associates, including high-powered figures such as Prince Andrew and Ehud Barak, whose names were among about 38 also circled, according to a copy of the document published by Gawker in 2015.
Writer Michael Wolff suggested in en email to Epstein he should either expose Trump if he lied in public about his ties to Epstein or âsave him, generating a debtâ if their relationship came under scrutiny.
2017 - Epstein told former Treasury Secretary Larry Summers in an email âyour world does not understand how dumb really isâ while discussing how difficult it allegedly was for Trumpâs then-lawyer Marc Kasowitz to find law firms willing to work with Trump.
Kathy Ruemmler, former White House counsel to President Barack Obama, told Epstein âTrump is so gross,â to which Epstein replied he is âworse in real life and upclose .â
In an interview with Wolff, Epstein described himself as âDonaldâs closest friend for 10 years.â
2019 - Epstein told Wolff in January, âof course knew about the girls as he asked Ghislaine to stop,â suggesting Trump had knowledge of Epsteinâs abuse of women, but stopping short of saying he was directly involved. Epstein also said âTrump asked me to resignâ from his Mar-a-Lago club, but had ânever a member ever.â
Epstein and former Trump adviser Steve Bannon discussed Trumpâs appearance in the U.K. with Prince Andrew, with Epstein writing that he found it âtooo funny.â Bannon said he couldnât âbelieve nobody is making the connective tissueâ with Epstein.
2020 - Edwards, the attorney who represented some Epstein victims, claimed in his 2020 memoir that Epstein had told some of his victims that he bailed Trump out of bankruptcy years earlier, according to the Times.
Sorry for formatting issues. I obviously didn't type this all out freehand. That does not make it false. Its magnitude should be worrisome, considering that folks who still think he's the cat's pajamas don't think he could be this horrible, even though he bragged about grabbing women by the pussy, as he tells it. You know, when you're famous, they just let you do it.
Yeah, but he hasn't be convicted, so we can't take any of this seriously.
Location: At the dude ranch / above the sea Gender:
Posted:
Dec 26, 2025 - 3:15pm
1980s - Trump and Epstein met around the time Trump bought Mar-a-Lago in 1985, when Epstein was also living in Palm Beach, according to Trump, who told New York magazine in 2002 he had known Epstein for â15 years,â calling him a âterrific guy,â and adding âit is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side.â
1989 - Trump and Epstein went to Trumpâs casino in Atlantic City, New Jersey, accompanied by young womenâat least one of whom was underageâaccording to the hotel and casinoâs then-president Jack OâConnell, who said Trump told him, âYeah, Jeffrey likes them young.â
1992 - Trump and Epstein were spotted laughing together at a party Trump threw at Mar-a-Lago, according to NBC footage of the event unearthed in 2019.
Epstein attended Trumpâs holiday party at the Plaza Hotel, according to an attendee who told the New York Times she ran into Epstein at the party.
1993 - At a âcalendar girlâ party at Mar-a-Lago where Trump invited just two other guests, Florida businessman George Houraney and Epstein, Houraneyâs girlfriend at the time, Jill Harth, said Trump forcibly kissed and fondled her and restrained her from leaving a bedroom. Harth also said Trump crawled into bed with another 22-year-old woman at the party, according to a 1997 lawsuit Trump settled with Harth (he has denied her allegations), The New York Times reported.
Photos released by CNN showed Epstein attended Trumpâs 1993 wedding to Marla Maplesâhis second wifeâat the Plaza Hotel in New York. A few months before the wedding, another photo published by CNN showed Epstein and Trump together at the opening of the Harley Davidson Cafe in New York.
Trump groped model Stacey Williams when Epstein brought her to Trump Tower, she alleged in a 2024 interview with The New York Times(Trumpâs 2024 campaign denied the allegations as âunequivocally falseâ and politically motivated).
1994 - Trump flew on one of Epsteinâs private jets, according to the flight logs.
Epstein took a 14-year-old girl to visit Trump at Mar-a-Lago, the woman later alleged anonymously in a civil lawsuit, with Epstein asking Trump, âThis is a good one, right?â; Trump allegedly âsmiled and noddedâ in response.
Handwritten notes kept by an Epstein assistant and reported by the Times show Trump was a âregular presenceâ in Epsteinâs life during this time, with notes documenting discussions about Mar-a-Lago parties, calls to Trump, and, in one case, saying to invite Trump to a party only if his ex-wife Ivana Trump declined to attend.
Mid-to-Late 1990s - Epstein and Trump âtalked at least three times a weekâ during this period and Trump met at Epsteinâs office at least several times, the financierâs former assistants told the Times, with Epsteinâs brother Mark Epstein also saying his brother told him Trump âvisited him frequently.â
1995 -Epstein reportedly called Maria Farmerâwho has accused Epstein and Maxwell of sexual assaultâto his New York office late at night, where Trump then arrived and âstarted to hover overâ Farmer, who was in her mid-20s at the time, and âstared at her bare legsâ before Epstein said, âNo, no. Sheâs not here for you,â Farmer told the FBI, according to The New York Times.
Trump took another flight on an Epstein jet, the flight logs say.
1997 - Trump signed a note to Epstein in his book, âTrump: The Art of the Comeback,â that said âTo JeffâYou are the greatest!â according to The New York Times.
Trump took a seventh flight on one of Epsteinâs jets.
Trump and Epstein were photographed standing near each other at a Victoriaâs Secret âAngelsâ party, according to a Getty image of Trump posing with model Ingrid Seynhaeve that shows Epstein in the background.
1999 - A video released by CNN showed Trump and Epstein laughing and chatting with each other at another Victoriaâs Secret event.
2000 - Epstein victim Virginia Giuffre was working at Trumpâs Mar-a-Lago resort when she was recruited by Maxwell to work as Epsteinâs personal masseuse and was groomed by Epstein and Maxwell to provide sexual services for Epstein and his wealthy circle, according to a deposition Giuffre gave that was made public in 2019.
2001 - Epstein was reportedly âannoyedâ after Trump called him and told an employee the now-president âwas short on cash and wanted a ride on Mr. Epsteinâs plane,â the employee told the Times.
2003 - Trump allegedly gave Epstein a birthday card that said âmay every day be another wonderful secret,â according to a July 2025 Wall Street Journal report, which the president denied and sued the paper over; The New York Times later reported Trump was on a list of contributors for the book of birthday cards that the letter allegedly appeared in.
2004 - Trump appeared to mention Epstein in a book of business advice, referring to a person as âthe mysterious Jeffreyâ and writing, âHeâs one of the few people I know who can get by on just a first name.â
Trump and Epstein had a falling out when Trump outbid him for a Palm Beach mansion, according to a Washington Post report.
Pre-2006 - Trump and Epstein appeared in a photo with singer James Brown, the Times reported (the photo is undated, but Brown died in 2006).
2007 - Trumpâs Mar-a-Lago club claimed Epstein had been banned from the property, with a source telling Page Six that Epstein âwould use the spa to try to procure girlsâ and asked one 18-year-old masseuse to âdo things,â adding, âHer father found out about it and went absolutely ape-.â
2009 - Bradley J. Edwards, a lawyer who represented Epstein victims, wrote in his memoir that he spoke with Trump by phone about Epstein in 2009, with Trump describing the financier as a âbusiness acquaintanceâ and saying he had last seen him at a business meeting at Epsteinâs home before sexual abuse allegations against Epstein had become public.
2010 -Resurfaced video, posted to social media by the progressive outlet MeidasTouch, showed Epstein confirming he socialized with Trump and declining to answer when asked if he has ever socialized with Trump âin the presence of females under the age of 18.â
2011 - Epstein told Maxwell in one of the emails released by House Democrats that Trump âspent hours at my houseâ with an unnamed victim and described Trump as the âdog that hasnât barked,â noting Trump âhas never once been mentionedâ in stories about Epsteinâs controversies.
2015 - Trumpâs name appeared circled in Epsteinâs âlittle black bookâ of 1,571 personal contacts, which spanned 97 pages of names, numbers and addresses of Epsteinâs associates, including high-powered figures such as Prince Andrew and Ehud Barak, whose names were among about 38 also circled, according to a copy of the document published by Gawker in 2015.
Writer Michael Wolff suggested in en email to Epstein he should either expose Trump if he lied in public about his ties to Epstein or âsave him, generating a debtâ if their relationship came under scrutiny.
2017 - Epstein told former Treasury Secretary Larry Summers in an email âyour world does not understand how dumb really isâ while discussing how difficult it allegedly was for Trumpâs then-lawyer Marc Kasowitz to find law firms willing to work with Trump.
Kathy Ruemmler, former White House counsel to President Barack Obama, told Epstein âTrump is so gross,â to which Epstein replied he is âworse in real life and upclose .â
In an interview with Wolff, Epstein described himself as âDonaldâs closest friend for 10 years.â
2019 - Epstein told Wolff in January, âof course knew about the girls as he asked Ghislaine to stop,â suggesting Trump had knowledge of Epsteinâs abuse of women, but stopping short of saying he was directly involved. Epstein also said âTrump asked me to resignâ from his Mar-a-Lago club, but had ânever a member ever.â
Epstein and former Trump adviser Steve Bannon discussed Trumpâs appearance in the U.K. with Prince Andrew, with Epstein writing that he found it âtooo funny.â Bannon said he couldnât âbelieve nobody is making the connective tissueâ with Epstein.
2020 - Edwards, the attorney who represented some Epstein victims, claimed in his 2020 memoir that Epstein had told some of his victims that he bailed Trump out of bankruptcy years earlier, according to the Times.
Sorry for formatting issues. I obviously didn't type this all out freehand. That does not make it false. Its magnitude should be worrisome, considering that folks who still think he's the cat's pajamas don't think he could be this horrible, even though he bragged about grabbing women by the pussy, as he tells it. You know, when you're famous, they just let you do it.
