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Index » Regional/Local » USA/Canada » "2000 Mules" movie purports to prove 2020 election was stolen Page: 1, 2  Next
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rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: May 17, 2022 - 7:02am

 Alchemist wrote:

And yet we're told that the 2020 election was the "most secure election in American history".  Clearly the massive increase in mail-in ballots in response to Covid has created the opportunity for all kinds of mischief.  

It's logical to assume that expansion of anything outside of the historical process is less secure, but the facts don't support it.  It's interesting that you are posting your "mail-in" ballot fraud potential in a thread built on a movie suggesting drop-box shenanigans.  A minority of these ballots are returned by mail.  The blanks are mailed, but the completed ballots are delivered to a secure box and handled by the same people who handle in-person ballot custody on election day.  In states that do not have polling stations on election day, roughly 75% of all ballots are returned to the exact same place that the voter would have to go on election day to place a vote.
The US has been voting remotely since the Civil War.  It is entirely possible that through the use of technology, elections are more secure than ever.  As others have said, if that's not correct... share the proof.

The real driver of these false claims is a Republican understanding that their positions are less and less popular, and that voting with ballots that are mailed increases voter turnout.  That's a bad mix for Republicans, so they are doing everything in their power to limit voting by making it harder for many to participate.
Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: May 16, 2022 - 7:33pm

 Alchemist wrote:

And yet we're told that the 2020 election was the "most secure election in American history".  Clearly the massive increase in mail-in ballots in response to Covid has created the opportunity for all kinds of mischief.  

Imagining that it might happen isn't the same as showing that it did. Show your work.

Here's the database from the Heritage Foundation, if that helps. Show where all the mischief occurred - but be warned we're looking for something significant.


Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: May 16, 2022 - 7:17pm

 Alchemist wrote:

And yet we're told that the 2020 election was the "most secure election in American history".  Clearly the massive increase in mail-in ballots in response to Covid has created the opportunity for all kinds of mischief.  


Please present proof of such mischief...
islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: May 16, 2022 - 6:39pm

 Alchemist wrote:

And yet we're told that the 2020 election was the "most secure election in American history".  Clearly the massive increase in mail-in ballots in response to Covid has created the opportunity for all kinds of mischief.  


Yes, and the security systems / protocols in place caught the malfeasance. As of yet, no one has shown any evidence of any fraud that would have had much impact. Also, the vast majority of fraud has been from the republican side. And most of the additional legislation proposed would do little to impact the kinds of fraud that have been exposed, and they have already been caught and handled by systems already in place.

So what other 'mischief' are you alleging happened? And do you think it swayed the outcome of the election?
Alchemist

Alchemist Avatar

Location: San Jose, CA
Gender: Male


Posted: May 16, 2022 - 6:29pm

 islander wrote:
Look,  genuine election fraud: https://www.pennlive.com/news/...
 
And yet we're told that the 2020 election was the "most secure election in American history".  Clearly the massive increase in mail-in ballots in response to Covid has created the opportunity for all kinds of mischief.  
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: May 16, 2022 - 2:21pm

 islander wrote:

Look,  genuine election fraud:

https://www.pennlive.com/news/...



But wait... there's more!

islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: May 16, 2022 - 1:18pm

Look,  genuine election fraud:

https://www.pennlive.com/news/...
Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: May 10, 2022 - 12:35pm

 Alchemist wrote:
Yes, 54K mules would be simply unbelievable. Of course the movie only claims 2K with their "10 drop-box" threshold, 54K was an example of what the result would be with a "5 drop-box" threshold. But thinking about it, if the outcome is so vastly different it likely implies their data is very noisy, so accuracy is suspect.

2,000 is also unbelievable, but 54K is what they claim to make the case that it wasn't just a couple of key states, that it was widespread and that some otherwise bogus claims of stolen elections hold up. 2K is, they claim, enough, but when they open their criteria up wide enough they get the bigger number.
The argument that we would already have evidence so we should ignore evidence is circular, however.

Not what I'm saying. If someone makes a fantastic claim a simple test of credibility is what else has to be true for this to be true?

If someone claims the sky is falling it's fair to go outside and look up.
Alchemist

Alchemist Avatar

Location: San Jose, CA
Gender: Male


Posted: May 10, 2022 - 10:41am

 Lazy8 wrote:
 Alchemist wrote:
 

The trailer makes the claim that there were 54K mules dropping ballots in drop boxes. 54K. And not a one of them has come forward. Not one deathbed confession, change of heart, bar stool brag, angry ex-wife. Not one car accident in all those trips by all those mules, where the stash of ballots is discovered in the car. Not one fat bundle of votes delivered to the wrong drop box. No one who has ever managed a project would believe something this large, this complex, with this many participants would go off this smoothly. You can't organize an office birthday party with .1% of that many people without someone revealing the plan. They would have had to come up with hundreds of thousands of blank ballots and have an army of people filling them out. Did they print them from scratch? Did they file hundreds of thousands of fake absentee ballot applications? If so, how were all those ballots collected? Who did that, and how did it evade detection? The graphics show nice tidy lines of travel, pretending to a precision that cell tower data can't possibly represent. Did they apply the same technique to reliably red states, where there would be no point in stuffing ballot boxes? Have they tried it on days after the election, last week say? What would that show? If you can produce their ballot-stuffing pattern any day of any year then it doesn't mean what they claim. So call me skeptical. This sounds like yet another desperate straw-grab.
 
Yes, 54K mules would be simply unbelievable.  Of course the movie only claims 2K with their "10 drop-box" threshold, 54K was an example of what the result would be with a "5 drop-box" threshold.  But thinking about it, if the outcome is so vastly different it likely implies their data is very noisy, so accuracy is suspect.  What they should be able to do is correlate the results with security camera footage to prove (or disprove) the accuracy of their filtering of the location data.  Of course it's possible they've already done this, and the results weren't to their liking...    The argument that we would already have evidence so we should ignore evidence is circular, however.
islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: May 9, 2022 - 9:33pm

 Alchemist wrote:


This has everything to do about the analysis of the data. As the AP fact check was quick to point out, cell phone location pings aren't as accurate as GPS. And knowing where someone was isn't the same as knowing what they were doing. So it's not enough to look at one cell phone's location data and conclude what happened. But that doesn't mean there isn't information available, especially when combined with large amounts of data from other phones and security camera footage. Law enforcement does this all the time. Just having an unnamed "expert" suggest that the methodology is flawed without stating how or why isn't particularly compelling. Nor is finding a single person who attests that they had a legitimate excuse for putting multiple ballots in a box doesn't mean that video evidence of this happening on a widespread scale should be ignored.

I really hope none of this is true - my faith in our elections would be crushed. But I do recall being astonished at the overnight turn of events in the 2020 election, and have always wondered about it


I didn't even bring up these points. I just think D'Souza is a crackpot, and has no legitimacy here (or anywhere else really). But I'll even allow he might have finally blind squirreled his way to a nut this time, but if so then show this evidence to a legitimate authority. To put it out in this manner (to this audience) is disingenuous at best, and more likely just a frothing money grab for teh gullible. I really hope you wouldn't fall prey to this trap, my faith in my fellow RPesians would be crushed. But I do recall being astonished at the turn of events over the last 6 years and have always wondered about it.   Turns out, good candidates lose elections, so we shouldn't be surprised when bad ones do as well. 


islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: May 9, 2022 - 9:27pm

 Lazy8 wrote:

The trailer makes the claim that there were 54K mules dropping ballots in drop boxes. 54K.

And not a one of them has come forward. Not one deathbed confession, change of heart, bar stool brag, angry ex-wife. Not one car accident in all those trips by all those mules, where the stash of ballots is discovered in the car. Not one fat bundle of votes delivered to the wrong drop box.

No one who has ever managed a project would believe something this large, this complex, with this many participants would go off this smoothly. You can't organize an office birthday party with .1% of that many people without someone revealing the plan.

They would have had to come up with hundreds of thousands of blank ballots and have an army of people filling them out. Did they print them from scratch? Did they file hundreds of thousands of fake absentee ballot applications? If so, how were all those ballots collected? Who did that, and how did it evade detection?


The graphics show nice tidy lines of travel, pretending to a precision that cell tower data can't possibly represent. Did they apply the same technique to reliably red states, where there would be no point in stuffing ballot boxes? Have they tried it on days after the election, last week say? What would that show? If you can produce their ballot-stuffing pattern any day of any year then it doesn't mean what they claim.

So call me skeptical. This sounds like yet another desperate straw-grab.


They are that good!


Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: May 9, 2022 - 7:17pm

 kcar wrote:

Dinesh being linked to any film in any of those roles listed above automatically disqualifies the movie from any link to reality.



agreed
kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: May 9, 2022 - 5:47pm

 maryte wrote:

Produced, directed, and written by Dinesh D'Souza - someone who subscribes to the conspiracy theory that Obama wasn't born in the United States.  I think he just wants more money from the gullible.


Dinesh being linked to any film in any of those roles listed above automatically disqualifies the movie from any link to reality.

Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: May 9, 2022 - 5:41pm

And this website proves unequivocally that Paul McCartney is dead. Proves it!

Don't forget Room 237 that proves the Kubrick faked the moon landing.

Sigh.

Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: May 9, 2022 - 5:11pm

 Alchemist wrote:

The trailer makes the claim that there were 54K mules dropping ballots in drop boxes. 54K.

And not a one of them has come forward. Not one deathbed confession, change of heart, bar stool brag, angry ex-wife. Not one car accident in all those trips by all those mules, where the stash of ballots is discovered in the car. Not one fat bundle of votes delivered to the wrong drop box.

No one who has ever managed a project would believe something this large, this complex, with this many participants would go off this smoothly. You can't organize an office birthday party with .1% of that many people without someone revealing the plan.

They would have had to come up with hundreds of thousands of blank ballots and have an army of people filling them out. Did they print them from scratch? Did they file hundreds of thousands of fake absentee ballot applications? If so, how were all those ballots collected? Who did that, and how did it evade detection?

The graphics show nice tidy lines of travel, pretending to a precision that cell tower data can't possibly represent. Did they apply the same technique to reliably red states, where there would be no point in stuffing ballot boxes? Have they tried it on days after the election, last week say? What would that show? If you can produce their ballot-stuffing pattern any day of any year then it doesn't mean what they claim.

So call me skeptical. This sounds like yet another desperate straw-grab.

Alchemist

Alchemist Avatar

Location: San Jose, CA
Gender: Male


Posted: May 9, 2022 - 4:48pm

 islander wrote:
 Alchemist wrote:

Yes, another one, because yes, this is a bunch of new evidence.  It shouldn't be hard to verify the veracity of the cell phone data.  If it's fake, then case closed.
Okay, so you've got the cell phone data. So now what? Surely with this level of fraud you have many connections to the people that committed the fraud? And the organizations that coordinated it?  Where has all this evidence been the last year while all the other investigations and audits were occuring? Fine, it has 'just come to light'. Okay, present away. But again, look at that messenger. If D'Souza is the only one you can find to sling that mud (and even fox backs away) then maybe the credibility is lacking. Still, welcome to drag it out a little more, but don't be surprised when you get a lot of yawns for the 347th new investigation with earthshattering new revelations. If it meets the standard for a conspiracy movie, but not that of a DA, then don't be surprised if a lot of people don't grab their pitchforks and join your parade.
 
This has everything to do about the analysis of the data.  As the AP fact check was quick to point out, cell phone location pings aren't as accurate as GPS.  And knowing where someone was isn't the same as knowing what they were doing.  So it's not enough to look at one cell phone's location data and conclude what happened.  But that doesn't mean there isn't information available, especially when combined with large amounts of data from other phones and security camera footage.  Law enforcement does this all the time.  Just having an unnamed "expert" suggest that the methodology is flawed without stating how or why isn't particularly compelling.  Nor is finding a single person who attests that they had a legitimate excuse for putting multiple ballots in a box doesn't mean that video evidence of this happening on a widespread scale should be ignored.

I really hope none of this is true - my faith in our elections would be crushed.  But I do recall being astonished at the overnight turn of events in the 2020 election, and have always wondered about it.
 
islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: May 9, 2022 - 3:51pm

 Alchemist wrote:

Yes, another one, because yes, this is a bunch of new evidence.  It shouldn't be hard to verify the veracity of the cell phone data.  If it's fake, then case closed.


Okay, so you've got the cell phone data. So now what? Surely with this level of fraud you have many connections to the people that committed the fraud? And the organizations that coordinated it?  Where has all this evidence been the last year while all the other investigations and audits were occuring?

Fine, it has 'just come to light'. Okay, present away. But again, look at that messenger. If D'Souza is the only one you can find to sling that mud (and even fox backs away) then maybe the credibility is lacking. Still, welcome to drag it out a little more, but don't be surprised when you get a lot of yawns for the 347th new investigation with earthshattering new revelations. If it meets the standard for a conspiracy movie, but not that of a DA, then don't be surprised if a lot of people don't grab their pitchforks and join your parade.
Alchemist

Alchemist Avatar

Location: San Jose, CA
Gender: Male


Posted: May 9, 2022 - 3:37pm

 islander wrote:
 Alchemist wrote:
there needs to be a proper investigation.

You mean another one. On top of all the ones already done.  The ones that have found effectively nothing. It's not like this election has had zero scrutiny and suddenly there is a bunch of new evidence. Also there is this: 
https://www.thedailybeast.com/... When Tucker Carlson thinks you are 'out there' then maybe it's time to dial back a bit. Of course D'Sousa, is familiar with being so far out that everyone backs away from his nuttiness. Sure he could have found a nugget this time, but history suggests otherwise. 
 
Yes, another one, because yes, this is a bunch of new evidence.  It shouldn't be hard to verify the veracity of the cell phone data.  If it's fake, then case closed.
islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: May 9, 2022 - 3:26pm

 Alchemist wrote:


there needs to be a proper investigation.


You mean another one. On top of all the ones already done.  The ones that have found effectively nothing. It's not like this election has had zero scrutiny and suddenly there is a bunch of new evidence.

Also there is this: 
https://www.thedailybeast.com/...

When Tucker Carlson thinks you are 'out there' then maybe it's time to dial back a bit. Of course D'Sousa, is familiar with being so far out that everyone backs away from his nuttiness. Sure he could have found a nugget this time, but history suggests otherwise. 


Alchemist

Alchemist Avatar

Location: San Jose, CA
Gender: Male


Posted: May 9, 2022 - 3:17pm

 rgio wrote:
 Alchemist wrote:

As if there aren't enough things going on right now to make our heads explode, ....


Yet there isn't a single name...a confession from a mule....suggestion of "who" the votes were supposed to be cast "by".  I'm not watching the whole movie, but I find it highly unlikely that 1,100 people in Philadelphia could organize, drop ballots, get paid (or are they all volunteer soldiers?), and nobody has yet sold their story, shown how they did it or exposed the scheme for their 15 mins of fame.  The majority of voters convicted of fraud in the 2020 election supported Trump.  If you believe the data, is there any reason to believe these aren't Trump votes? I'm sure somewhere the "Fake News Media" has fact-checked this.  The fact that so many people, including a former President, will support such BS instead of believing the much more likely and to date proven outcome is a sad commentary on the country.
 
It is hard to imagine there could be such a huge conspiracy.  Yet, the claim is they have hard data showing this highly suspicious activity in the swing states.  Either the cell phone location data is false, or there's a legitimate explanation for the activity of thousands of people, or someone organized a massive fraud.  I really struggle to think of a legitimate reason for the behavior - why visit so many drop boxes throughout the night?  As to whether the votes were for Biden or Trump, the latter is the most despised president in my lifetime, with many people believing the ends justified the means to get him out of office.  Also keep in mind that since they know everywhere the suspects have been they know a lot about them.

As to where the ballots came from, the movie covers this topic.  There are many sources, but the mass mailing of ballots to outdated voter rolls because of Covid resulted in large numbers of valid ballots floating around.  As to confessions from a mule, they do indeed interview one in the film.  In my mind the far more compelling case is made by the location data and surveillance cameras, though.

Half the country is going to jump on this, there needs to be a proper investigation.

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