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oldviolin

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Posted: Feb 20, 2024 - 10:19am

 Lazy8 wrote:

Fire For Effect
Lazy8

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Posted: Feb 20, 2024 - 10:16am

Yurp is stepping up. About time.

Denmark will send its ‘entire artillery’ to Ukraine


NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Feb 19, 2024 - 10:55pm

 R_P wrote:

A very similar kind, but with different necessary illusions.


apropos:

“The Russians were hunting us down. They had a list of names, including ours, and they were closing in. We were the only international journalists left in the city of #Mariupol. We were reporting inside the hospital when gunmen began stalking the corridors. Surgeons gave us scrubs to wear as camouflage. We were whisked into a dark basement. The police officer who helped said to us, “if they catch you, they will get you on camera and film you saying that everything is a lie. All your efforts will be in vain.”

— this is not from a Hollywood horror movie. This is Mstyslav Chernov’s statement about surviving the siege of Mariupol so that his footage could be shown. If they’d been caught, this post would not exist, the truth about Mariupol would be erased from history, and more than likely this entire team of journalists would be dead."

NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Feb 19, 2024 - 10:27pm

 R_P wrote:

It's a pro-democratic critique of the media and propaganda (which build that hubris) in democracies. And the lack of democracy in media.


I don't have the time to read NC but I can kind of guess where he is coming from, and his arguments are probably not without some justification. But the media landscape in Europe is slightly different to the States with public TV and radio having far greater influence (as you know). But this may have actually exacerbated the hand-wringing and indecisiveness because every man and his dog got airtime in the interests of "being fair". But again, that is part and parcel of a functioning democracy, so I'm happy to bear it. 

There was certainly no lack of democracy in German TV over the last couple of years IMO.



R_P

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Posted: Feb 19, 2024 - 9:37pm

 haresfur wrote:
And what kind of media and propaganda build hubris in dictatorships? 

A very similar kind, but with different necessary illusions.

haresfur

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Posted: Feb 19, 2024 - 9:20pm

 R_P wrote:

It's a pro-democratic critique of the media and propaganda (which build that hubris) in democracies. And the lack of democracy in media.



And what kind of media and propaganda build hubris in dictatorships? 
R_P

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Posted: Feb 19, 2024 - 9:10pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
more like western hubris (...)

It's a pro-democratic critique of the media and propaganda (which build that hubris) in democracies. And the lack of democracy in media.

NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Feb 19, 2024 - 7:56pm

 R_P wrote:
The mood this year contrasted starkly with the more upbeat 2023. “It was very self-congratulatory last year, with so much hope pinned on the Ukrainian counteroffensive,” said Heather Conley, head of the German Marshall Fund.

This year, prospects are darkening as Russia reconstitutes its army and has shifted to a war economy. “We’re going to see Ukraine suffer from battlefield losses, we could see significant Russian gains, and the Ukrainians have no ammunition left,” Conley said.

Admiral Rob Bauer, chair of the Nato military committee, acknowledged that the west had been “overly optimistic about the war in 2023”, believing that “if we give the Ukrainians the ammunition and training they need, they’ll win”.
Necessary Illusions

more like western hubris than any lack of democracy. 
In contrast to the authoritarian state you seem to be rooting for there has been massive discussion here in Europe, resulting in indecision and hamstringing of any serious response. 
That is part of the package with democracies.
But slowly people are realising how serious the Russian threat actually is and are starting to respond accordingly. 
About bloody time if you ask me.
R_P

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Posted: Feb 19, 2024 - 3:11pm

The mood this year contrasted starkly with the more upbeat 2023. “It was very self-congratulatory last year, with so much hope pinned on the Ukrainian counteroffensive,” said Heather Conley, head of the German Marshall Fund.

This year, prospects are darkening as Russia reconstitutes its army and has shifted to a war economy. “We’re going to see Ukraine suffer from battlefield losses, we could see significant Russian gains, and the Ukrainians have no ammunition left,” Conley said.

Admiral Rob Bauer, chair of the Nato military committee, acknowledged that the west had been “overly optimistic about the war in 2023”, believing that “if we give the Ukrainians the ammunition and training they need, they’ll win”.
Necessary Illusions
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Feb 19, 2024 - 12:02pm

 Beaker wrote:


It looks to me, from what I'm reading on Xitter, this is already beginning/underway.  America has been exposed as a potentially unreliable partner - dependent upon which party is in power.  And now some of the European countries are waking up, and dramatically boosting military spending.  Good.  Putin won't stop at Ukraine, so he must be stopped from taking Ukraine.


yep, I think that is what is happening. There is open talk now about a "Pearl Harbour" moment for Europe, with some saying it is just around the corner and others saying we are already in the middle of it. 

The European response has been tragically slow, but it is definitely gaining momentum. This also means Putin has a decreasing window open to him to chalk up a victory before he gets swamped.

The biggest threat, both here and in the States, is how the next cycle of elections pan out.
Beaker

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Posted: Feb 19, 2024 - 11:47am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

The pervading response from participants at the Munich Security Conference seems pretty bleak.

Despite that, I have a feeling this might be the point where things finally turn around and that people realise that Russia has already declared war against the rest of Europe and we have to respond accordingly and put the continent on a war footing. 

So far, Europe has treated him as some kind of anomaly, a temporary phenomenon who will go away by himself and if not, the Americans will deal with it. 
Finally they are realizing that they have to deal with this themselves. Europe's output easily dwarfs that of Russia. If they get their shit together, this will be over relatively quickly.



It looks to me, from what I'm reading on Xitter, this is already beginning/underway.  America has been exposed as a potentially unreliable partner - dependent upon which party is in power.  And now some of the European countries are waking up, and dramatically boosting military spending.  Good.  Putin won't stop at Ukraine, so he must be stopped from taking Ukraine.
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Feb 19, 2024 - 11:42am

The pervading response from participants at the Munich Security Conference seems pretty bleak.

Despite that, I have a feeling this might be the point where things finally turn around and that people realise that Russia has already declared war against the rest of Europe and we have to respond accordingly and put the continent on a war footing. 

So far, Europe has treated him as some kind of anomaly, a temporary phenomenon who will go away by himself and if not, the Americans will deal with it. 
Finally they are realizing that they have to deal with this themselves. Europe's output easily dwarfs that of Russia. If they get their shit together, this will be over relatively quickly.

Beaker

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Posted: Feb 19, 2024 - 6:43am

Patriot Tour - Feb 2024

Americans: HIMARS - High Mobility Artillery System
Ukrainians. Hold my beer: HIMPADS - High Mobility Patriot Air Defense System


Beaker

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Posted: Jan 26, 2024 - 7:47am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:


Lord, your framing of the Ukrainian fight for independence in the terms of a South American left-wing fight against capitalism is getting kind of tiresome.

But in one thing you are right, at least in what you imply. Yes, Europe should not have to rely on the US for its defence. It is high time the Europeans got their collective shit together and stood up for their own ideals. Slowly the machinery is gathering steam to actually do this.
Europe has got a lot of dead weight though, from obscurantists of all persuasions who just don't want to see Russia for what it really is. Meanwhile, Ukrainians are being terrorised on a daily basis and the Neo-fascists are gaining popularity across the continent from people who skipped history classes.


:thumbsup:
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Jan 26, 2024 - 2:49am

 westslope wrote:


Wasn't "Democracy" the same excuse the Americans used for killing gook babies in Vietnam as well as killing ragheads that opposed the ethnic cleansing of Arabs in the former Palestinian Mandate?  

"Democracy" is also the same excuse or pretext the Americans used for imposing sanctions on the Maduro regime in Venezuela.    The Americans did this because a) they wanted to increase the suffering of the Venezuelan people, and b) they wanted to throw the incompetent, populist, corrupt and economy-destroying Maduro regime a life line and extend its rule as long as possible. 


Lord, your framing of the Ukrainian fight for independence in the terms of a South American left-wing fight against capitalism is getting kind of tiresome.

But in one thing you are right, at least in what you imply. Yes, Europe should not have to rely on the US for its defence. It is high time the Europeans got their collective shit together and stood up for their own ideals. Slowly the machinery is gathering steam to actually do this.
Europe has got a lot of dead weight though, from obscurantists of all persuasions who just don't want to see Russia for what it really is. Meanwhile, Ukrainians are being terrorised on a daily basis and the Neo-fascists are gaining popularity across the continent from people who skipped history classes.


edit: I should rephrase that first sentence because your depiction of situation is so contorted I didn't bring it across right. Basically you paint Russia as the defender here of left-wing ideals and freedoms and Ukraine as the nasty vassal of foreign imperialism acting totally at the behest of the US.

The reality is in fact completely the opposite. Russia is the imperialist power here struggling to assert its will on vassal states. Thanks to the Ukrainians it is failing miserably.
You don't have to listen to me or any pro-Ukrainian site to reach this conclusion. Just follow Russian state TV. 
westslope

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Posted: Jan 26, 2024 - 1:32am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

Wasn't "Democracy" the same excuse the Americans used for killing gook babies in Vietnam as well as killing ragheads that opposed the ethnic cleansing of Arabs in the former Palestinian Mandate?  

"Democracy" is also the same excuse or pretext the Americans used for imposing sanctions on the Maduro regime in Venezuela.    The Americans did this because a) they wanted to increase the suffering of the Venezuelan people, and b) they wanted to throw the incompetent, populist, corrupt and economy-destroying Maduro regime a life line and extend its rule as long as possible. 
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Jan 26, 2024 - 12:37am

Ukraine Is Committed to Europe and Democracy


westslope

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Posted: Jan 14, 2024 - 11:45am

 R_P wrote:

Russian infiltration at the NYT!


Questions are.... have the editors of the New York Times learned something about history, social dilemmas and in particular security dilemmas?  Have the editors of the New York Times finally started to pay attention to voices in the Global South and their own home-grown experts?  

Or is this once again 'pack journalism' in operation?   Perhaps the NYTs simply does not want to get left behind and thus run the risk of major embarrassment?  


R_P

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Posted: Jan 13, 2024 - 4:29pm

 westslope wrote:
Russia Regains Upper Hand in Ukraine’s East as Kyiv’s Troops Struggle - NYT
Ukrainians are weary, short of ammunition and outnumbered, and their prospects look bleak. (...)

Russian infiltration at the NYT!

westslope

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Posted: Jan 13, 2024 - 4:19pm

Russia Regains Upper Hand in Ukraine’s East as Kyiv’s Troops Struggle - NYT
Ukrainians are weary, short of ammunition and outnumbered, and their prospects look bleak. “We can stop them for now, but who knows,” one soldier said. “Tomorrow or the next day, maybe we can’t stop them.”
........
Ukraine’s military prospects are looking bleak. Western military aid is no longer assured at the same levels as years past. Ukraine’s summer counteroffensive in the south, where Jaeger was wounded days after it began, is over, having failed to meet any of its objectives.
.......
“Three out of ten soldiers who show up are no better than drunks who fell asleep and woke up in uniform,” he said, referring to the new recruits who arrive at his brigade.

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