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Index » Regional/Local » Europe » Ukraine Page: 1, 2, 3 ... 114, 115, 116  Next
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R_P

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Posted: Jun 20, 2024 - 10:41am

Divide and rule

R_P

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Posted: Jun 20, 2024 - 7:19am

US to redirect Patriot air defence orders to Ukraine
Systems destined for other countries will be diverted to help Kyiv protect its cities and critical infrastructure
R_P

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Posted: Jun 17, 2024 - 8:56pm

 Lazy8 wrote:
Also not an answer.

If it's any consolation your approach bores me too.

Groundhog Day

Hedges: 'Most Americans think NATO is defensive. That's laughable'


Lazy8

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Posted: Jun 17, 2024 - 8:45pm

 R_P wrote:

Also not an answer.

If it's any consolation your approach bores me too.
R_P

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Posted: Jun 17, 2024 - 5:54pm

NATO in talks to put nuclear weapons on standby, boss tells UK's Telegraph
R_P

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Posted: Jun 17, 2024 - 12:36pm

 Lazy8 wrote:
So for moral leadership we should turn to the likes of you and Putin? (...)


Lazy8

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Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 17, 2024 - 8:44am

 R_P wrote:
Pre-emptive wars are US policy too. You don't get to decide when another country, with its own national interest, feels threatened. Your job is to inflate threats and further chauvinistic hysteria.

Whataboutism is there to point out the blatant hypocrisy. No credibility or moral leadership whatsoever.

So for moral leadership we should turn to the likes of you and Putin?

Or is moral leadership irrelevant here, because a despot gets to declare he's threatened and kill hundreds of thousands of people to assuage his supposed fear and it's nobody's business, move along?

Explain that to the people of the Baltics and Poland, who realize the obvious: that they're next.
Isabeau

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Posted: Jun 16, 2024 - 3:09pm

 Beaker wrote:

Russian soldier.  Note the blended choices in camo - he's ready for any environ! Also note the choice in combat boots.  Stylish.


Those are strictly beer/tampon/cigs lighter run-to-the-local Sak N Run Convenience store shoes! 
R_P

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Posted: Jun 16, 2024 - 3:09pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
somehow I get the feeling our pet progressive reactionary-in-other-garb is feeling a little tender.  

if you feel the need to conflate ex-soviet satellite states seeking freedom from the resurgence of one party soviet rule with simply being myopic chickens dancing to the tune of US neolibs out to make a buck on arm's sale, be my guest, but that is a pretty contorted, obscurantist take on it that requires its own dead-weight's worth  in Mearsheimer "it's all just power politics" thinking. You call the US out on its moral bankruptcy and its hypocrisy (in our reply to Lazy8), not without some justification, but you know what? I think the US is irrelevant to the collapse of the Russian empire. ALL European empires have collapsed under the weight of their own contradictions and I don't see Russia being any exception. I also think Mearsheimer sucks big time. As soon as you go down that road you undermine any moral/political credibility you might yourself have aspired too, making you just as bad/devoid of principle as the nasty US you obviously despise so much, leaving you both in a Hobbesian mud made up of the lowest common denominator that humankind can aspire to.  Bravo. 

But get this,  why is it that the satellite states of Russia that are/were (some have succeeded) so keen to get out from the hegemonic umbrella of Russia post 1989? Why are they the states that immediately stepped up to the plate when it came to sending support to Ukraine? Why has GDP soared in these states? None of this has anything to do with the weight of geopolitical power centres (by this I mean military), be it the US, Europe, Russia or China. It is solely due to the people wanting something better. And they are willing to risk the ire of the mighty Soviet army to find it. 

The only people who seem to have a problem with this are people like you who think Russian military might is of itself enough justification for submission, which only gets us back to the Hobbesian mud referred to below. 

So, yet again, as I have done repeatedly, I ask you: what is the Russian system in your opinion offering these people that would give it some form of credible moral authority? Why do YOU think these satellite states are wrong to fight for what they see as a better future that is free from the yoke of Russian/Gazprom mafiosi rule?

This is the point where you inevitably bail out of the discussion because it is oh so much easier to diss the United States with its chequered record on human rights and wars of aggression (yawn).

Yes, feel free to imagine some emotional effect and habitually discard counter arguments. It's more the tedium of reading the same pablum provided by sources from your ideological (Hegemonic/Atlanticist/Fella/Neoliberal) bubble(s). It's all been explained numerous times over many years. Yet you can't help the cherry-picking and obtuse twisting into the straw men.

All the chicken hawks sing: If you're not with us, you're with (the enemy du jour). All critics of the infantile dualism, incl. Mearsheimer, Chomsky and others, face the same accusations.

March onwards!

Beaker

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Location: Your safe space


Posted: Jun 16, 2024 - 12:03pm


Russian soldier.  Note the blended choices in camo - he's ready for any environ! Also note the choice in combat boots.  Stylish.
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Jun 16, 2024 - 11:46am

 R_P wrote:

Who's (still) calling the shots?

Speak for yourself when it comes to cluelessness. Isn't it always about Democracy™, Liberty™, Prosperity and Flourishing?! lol.

Grab those suitcases and join the resistance! To the last Ukrainian, chicken hawks!

"I think this summer, Ukraine will regain military momentum," he said.

And he stressed that Ukraine's success is in American interest. "If we help Ukraine now, they can become the best business partner we ever dreamed of," Graham said, citing mineral assets in Ukraine.

"This is a very big deal, how Ukraine ends. Let's help them win a war we can't afford to lose."
The Ugly American Id on display, but feel free to buy the good-vs-evil-happy-ending Marvel stories.



somehow I get the feeling our pet progressive reactionary-in-other-garb is feeling a little tender.  

if you feel the need to conflate ex-soviet satellite states seeking freedom from the resurgence of one party soviet rule with simply being myopic chickens dancing to the tune of US neolibs out to make a buck on arm's sale, be my guest, but that is a pretty contorted, obscurantist take on it that requires its own dead-weight's worth  in Mearsheimer "it's all just power politics" thinking. You call the US out on its moral bankruptcy and its hypocrisy (in our reply to Lazy8), not without some justification, but you know what? I think the US is irrelevant to the collapse of the Russian empire. ALL European empires have collapsed under the weight of their own contradictions and I don't see Russia being any exception. I also think Mearsheimer sucks big time. As soon as you go down that road you undermine any moral/political credibility you might yourself have aspired too, making you just as bad/devoid of principle as the nasty US you obviously despise so much, leaving you both in a Hobbesian mud made up of the lowest common denominator that humankind can aspire to.  Bravo. 

But get this,  why is it that the satellite states of Russia that are/were (some have succeeded) so keen to get out from the hegemonic umbrella of Russia post 1989? Why are they the states that immediately stepped up to the plate when it came to sending support to Ukraine? Why has GDP soared in these states? None of this has anything to do with the weight of geopolitical power centres (by this I mean military), be it the US, Europe, Russia or China. It is solely due to the people wanting something better. And they are willing to risk the ire of the mighty Soviet army to find it. 

The only people who seem to have a problem with this are people like you who think Russian military might is of itself enough justification for submission, which only gets us back to the Hobbesian mud referred to below. 

So, yet again, as I have done repeatedly, I ask you: what is the Russian system in your opinion offering these people that would give it some form of credible moral authority? Why do YOU think these satellite states are wrong to fight for what they see as a better future that is free from the yoke of Russian/Gazprom mafiosi rule?

This is the point where you inevitably bail out of the discussion because it is oh so much easier to diss the United States with its chequered record on human rights and wars of aggression (yawn). 



Beaker

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Location: Your safe space


Posted: Jun 16, 2024 - 10:55am

 kurtster wrote:

Sadly, I don't see Russia being defeated anytime soon.

I keep seeing flashbacks of promised defeat of the enemy in Viet Nam, which never happened.


My take ... it's a complex situation, not just on the ground, but in geopolitics.  Ignoring the bluster, how will Trump actually respond / what actions will he take once in office?  How will Europe react once Trump's intentions and actions are known?  Europe is already showing significant signs they'll go it alone if Trump were to actually abandon the cause.  I suspect much of the world is waiting for the US election outcome - even Putin is trying to concrete his gains before November.  One way or the other, I'm thinking the war will be over in ~+/-2yrs, 3yrs at max.

kurtster

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Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 16, 2024 - 10:38am

 Beaker wrote:
Once defeated in Ukraine, Russia will not be a significant threat in a conventional war for a long time to come.

 
Sadly, I don't see Russia being defeated anytime soon.

I keep seeing flashbacks of promised defeat of the enemy in Viet Nam, which never happened.
thisbody

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Posted: Jun 16, 2024 - 9:50am

 Beaker wrote:

With outcomes overlooked by many, this war has exercised both new and old weaponry and tactics.  And in doing so, multiple weaknesses and failures in Russia's military tech and doctrine have become evident.  Ukraine's innovative use of tactics and western technology is one of the pleasant surprises - and key learning opportunities. Western military is taking notice of Russia's failures - and adjusting accordingly.  Once defeated in Ukraine, Russia will not be a significant threat in a conventional war for a long time to come.

Russia’s War in Ukraine: Critical Vulnerabilities to Russia’s Military Operations and Systems


Ooohh.. sharp! Another exploit of taxpayers' money, and the biggest of 'em all folks, the weapons industry being quoted for "statesmanship" leading us all to the (s) laughter-house.

Beaker

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Location: Your safe space


Posted: Jun 16, 2024 - 9:41am

With outcomes overlooked by many, this war has exercised both new and old weaponry and tactics.  And in doing so, multiple weaknesses and failures in Russia's military tech and doctrine have become evident.  Ukraine's innovative use of tactics and western technology is one of the pleasant surprises - and key learning opportunities. Western military is taking notice of Russia's failures - and adjusting accordingly.  Once defeated in Ukraine, Russia will not be a significant threat in a conventional war for a long time to come.

Russia’s War in Ukraine: Critical Vulnerabilities to Russia’s Military Operations and Systems


R_P

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Posted: Jun 16, 2024 - 9:23am

 Lazy8 wrote:
Every inch of ground everywhere has blood on it. That does not justify further blood. And there is no justification anywhere, ever, for a war of conquest.

Your whataboutism is pure distraction. Ukraine and NATO were never a threat to Russia, they were just obstacles to Russia growing its empire. Even if they had posed a threat I've seen you denounce the concept of pre-emptive war in these very pages, as if that were a principled stance.

We know better now.

Pre-emptive wars are US policy too. You don't get to decide when another country, with its own national interest, feels threatened. Your job is to inflate threats and further chauvinistic hysteria.

Whataboutism is there to point out the blatant hypocrisy. No credibility or moral leadership whatsoever.
Lazy8

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Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 16, 2024 - 9:14am

 R_P wrote:
National interests (potentially) subservient to yours. Iraq is a country, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, etc., etc. Their sovereignty or national interests were of little concern.

Some annexations barely raise a US eyebrow. The US annexed as well.

Every inch of ground everywhere has blood on it. That does not justify further blood. And there is no justification anywhere, ever, for a war of conquest.

Your whataboutism is pure distraction. Ukraine and NATO were never a threat to Russia, they were just obstacles to Russia growing its empire. Even if they had posed a threat I've seen you denounce the concept of pre-emptive war in these very pages, as if that were a principled stance.

We know better now.


R_P

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Posted: Jun 16, 2024 - 6:23am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
Why on earth do you think this war has anything to do with US hegemony?

If there is one single country that gives me hope for the future, it is Ukraine. Not Russia, Not China. Not the U.S.  Not Germany.
Ukraine, followed by the Baltics.

Unlike the rest of us
, they know what they are fighting for.

Who's (still) calling the shots?

Speak for yourself when it comes to cluelessness. Isn't it always about Democracy™, Liberty™, Prosperity and Flourishing?! lol.

Grab those suitcases and join the resistance! To the last Ukrainian, chicken hawks!

"I think this summer, Ukraine will regain military momentum," he said.

And he stressed that Ukraine's success is in American interest. "If we help Ukraine now, they can become the best business partner we ever dreamed of," Graham said, citing mineral assets in Ukraine.

"This is a very big deal, how Ukraine ends. Let's help them win a war we can't afford to lose."
The Ugly American Id on display, but feel free to buy the good-vs-evil-happy-ending Marvel stories.

NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Jun 15, 2024 - 10:41pm

 R_P wrote:

It used to be uncontroversial to not be pro-NATO...



wanna tissue?
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Jun 15, 2024 - 10:36pm

 R_P wrote:

National interests (potentially) subservient to yours. Iraq is a country, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, etc., etc. Their sovereignty or national interests were of little concern.

Some annexations barely raise a US eyebrow. The US annexed as well.


Why on earth do you think this war has anything to do with US hegemony?  Until recently the US has been appalling at supporting Ukraine and its support is still pretty paltry. 

Russia has been bombing the civilian population of Ukraine on a daily basis, committing war crime after war crime as it lobs guided missiles, drones and glide bombs at civilian targets for well over two years and how many Patriot batteries did the US give them? Just one. That's right just ONE. 
And this list goes on:
NO aircraft (apart from 20 Soviet-era helicopters from Afghanistan)
Just 76 tanks, again most of which were Soviet-build stock
20 HIMARs, etc. etc.
At the same time, it refused to allow Ukraine to attack any sites inside Russia, effectively telling Ukraine to just grin and bear it. 

If anything, the US has been following a wink, wink, nudge, nudge, policy of appeasement that has only encouraged the Russians. 
But no, you continue to insist this is a battle of mighty Soviet power against the evil aggressive west and NATO projecting its power. 
Scuse my French, but like fuck it is.

If there is one single country that gives me hope for the future, it is Ukraine. Not Russia, Not China. Not the U.S.  Not Germany.
Ukraine, followed by the Baltics.

Unlike the rest of us, they know what they are fighting for.


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