[ ]   [ ]   [ ]                        [ ]      [ ]   [ ]

Photography Forum - Your Own Photos - fractalv - Mar 18, 2024 - 9:09pm
 
March 2024 Photo Theme - Many - fractalv - Mar 18, 2024 - 9:08pm
 
Live Music - oldviolin - Mar 18, 2024 - 8:24pm
 
Cryptic Posts - Leave Them Guessing - Bill_J - Mar 18, 2024 - 8:23pm
 
Damn Dinosaurs! - oldviolin - Mar 18, 2024 - 8:16pm
 
New Forum Member on "What Makes RP Great" - oldviolin - Mar 18, 2024 - 8:02pm
 
Name My Band - oldviolin - Mar 18, 2024 - 8:00pm
 
Irony 101 - oldviolin - Mar 18, 2024 - 7:55pm
 
Radio Paradise Comments - oldviolin - Mar 18, 2024 - 7:35pm
 
Trump - Steely_D - Mar 18, 2024 - 5:05pm
 
One Partying State - Wyoming News - geoff_morphini - Mar 18, 2024 - 3:58pm
 
Great guitar faces - skyguy - Mar 18, 2024 - 3:33pm
 
The Obituary Page - kurtster - Mar 18, 2024 - 1:51pm
 
Despots, dictators and war criminals - R_P - Mar 18, 2024 - 12:41pm
 
Uploading Music - dischuckin - Mar 18, 2024 - 11:55am
 
Wordle - daily game - geoff_morphini - Mar 18, 2024 - 11:35am
 
Israel - R_P - Mar 18, 2024 - 11:25am
 
Media Matters - thisbody - Mar 18, 2024 - 10:03am
 
NYTimes Connections - geoff_morphini - Mar 18, 2024 - 8:26am
 
Bug Reports & Feature Requests - jarro - Mar 18, 2024 - 6:37am
 
Today in History - DaveInSaoMiguel - Mar 18, 2024 - 5:42am
 
NASA & other news from space - miamizsun - Mar 18, 2024 - 4:13am
 
2024 Elections! - R_P - Mar 17, 2024 - 11:43am
 
Basketball - geoff_morphini - Mar 17, 2024 - 11:11am
 
MEALTICKET - drinpt - Mar 17, 2024 - 4:13am
 
What makes you smile? - Steely_D - Mar 16, 2024 - 7:31pm
 
Musky Mythology - R_P - Mar 16, 2024 - 2:07pm
 
Apple Computer - GeneP59 - Mar 16, 2024 - 12:02pm
 
Mixtape Culture Club - Steely_D - Mar 16, 2024 - 11:41am
 
Environment - R_P - Mar 16, 2024 - 11:18am
 
RightWingNutZ - R_P - Mar 16, 2024 - 10:48am
 
Caching to Apple watch quit working - lsiegel - Mar 16, 2024 - 8:12am
 
Cache stopped working on old Android Phone - jarro - Mar 15, 2024 - 3:25pm
 
Talk Behind Their Backs Forum - VV - Mar 15, 2024 - 2:47pm
 
Joe Biden - black321 - Mar 15, 2024 - 2:33pm
 
Artificial Intelligence - miamizsun - Mar 15, 2024 - 12:15pm
 
the Todd Rundgren topic - Steely_D - Mar 15, 2024 - 11:01am
 
Things You Thought Today - kurtster - Mar 15, 2024 - 10:37am
 
Republican Party - islander - Mar 15, 2024 - 9:08am
 
How's the weather? - miamizsun - Mar 15, 2024 - 6:53am
 
Radio Paradise app on Android is broken - timmus - Mar 15, 2024 - 5:25am
 
Ukraine - NoEnzLefttoSplit - Mar 14, 2024 - 10:17pm
 
Democratic Party - R_P - Mar 14, 2024 - 3:04pm
 
The Chomsky / Zinn Reader - thisbody - Mar 14, 2024 - 2:00pm
 
Unquiet Minds - Mental Health Forum - thisbody - Mar 14, 2024 - 1:54pm
 
USA! USA! USA! - thisbody - Mar 14, 2024 - 12:31pm
 
China - R_P - Mar 14, 2024 - 11:52am
 
Android App Problems After Update - jarro - Mar 14, 2024 - 12:58am
 
Russia - NoEnzLefttoSplit - Mar 13, 2024 - 11:59am
 
It's the economy stupid. - kurtster - Mar 13, 2024 - 11:22am
 
How do I get songs into My Favorites - ScottFromWyoming - Mar 13, 2024 - 10:11am
 
Jazz channel? - Steely_D - Mar 13, 2024 - 9:13am
 
Vinyl Only Spin List - kurtster - Mar 13, 2024 - 2:01am
 
What Makes You Laugh? - miamizsun - Mar 12, 2024 - 11:17am
 
Frequent drop outs (The Netherlands) - ScopPics - Mar 12, 2024 - 7:20am
 
If not RP, what are you listening to right now? - Beaker - Mar 11, 2024 - 12:37am
 
• • • What Makes You Happy? • • •  - Red_Dragon - Mar 10, 2024 - 11:02am
 
female vocalists - Steely_D - Mar 10, 2024 - 9:13am
 
New Music - whatshisname - Mar 9, 2024 - 4:27pm
 
Other Medical Stuff - Coaxial - Mar 9, 2024 - 1:09pm
 
Outstanding Covers - skyguy - Mar 9, 2024 - 9:23am
 
Ridiculous or Funny Spam - KurtfromLaQuinta - Mar 9, 2024 - 8:31am
 
Oh dear god, BEES! - KurtfromLaQuinta - Mar 9, 2024 - 8:24am
 
Maybe it's just the beer talking... - Proclivities - Mar 8, 2024 - 12:04pm
 
History - lather, rinse, repeat. - R_P - Mar 8, 2024 - 10:12am
 
Big Pharma - black321 - Mar 8, 2024 - 9:33am
 
Can't find Radio 2050 in my Ocean Digital Tuner - sjagminas1 - Mar 8, 2024 - 7:57am
 
• • • The Once-a-Day • • •  - oldviolin - Mar 7, 2024 - 6:50pm
 
Music Videos - Red_Dragon - Mar 7, 2024 - 6:21pm
 
Climate Change - Manbird - Mar 7, 2024 - 2:58pm
 
what else do you listen to? (RP alternatives) - haresfur - Mar 7, 2024 - 1:43pm
 
~ Have a good joke you can post? ~ - black321 - Mar 7, 2024 - 12:17pm
 
Lyrics that strike a chord today... - oldviolin - Mar 7, 2024 - 11:56am
 
Did the punishment fit the Crime? - oldviolin - Mar 7, 2024 - 11:43am
 
The US of A telling Russia not to invade Ukraine is like... - GeneP59 - Mar 7, 2024 - 8:42am
 
Index » Radio Paradise/General » General Discussion » Fascism American-style Page: 1, 2, 3  Next
Post to this Topic
westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Oct 11, 2022 - 1:44pm

 kurtster wrote:

I disagree.  This is a corporation being authoritarian in deciding what is acceptable or unacceptable social behaviour.  And an implementation of the proposed policy has financial consequences / penalties or actual fines as would a government entity.

Well, for an 'authoritarian company' as you put it, they sure took down the policy in a big hurry.   No innocent civilians were hurt in the process.  

But frankly kurt, compared to the human rights abuses committed by stalwart US allies such as Egypt and Morocco, this PayPal incident is hardly worth discussing.

rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 11, 2022 - 12:42pm

 kurtster wrote:

I disagree.  This is a corporation being authoritarian in deciding what is acceptable or unacceptable social behaviour.  And an implementation of the proposed policy has financial consequences / penalties or actual fines as would a government entity.

Don't use them.  it's not authoritarian, it's the free market.

it's amazing how the small-government, no-regulation folks want to tell private companies how they should act about ... wait for it... lying and dishonest behavior.  I guess when you follow a liar, honesty and responsibility become liabilities.   

kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 11, 2022 - 12:25pm

 westslope wrote:
kurt:  This is not corporate fascism. Corporate fascism is more akin to the elbows up Neo-Mercantilism practiced by both President Trump and President Biden.  
But otherwise, I agree with your sentiment.  Misinformation and lying are key components of American culture.   Consumers should not be punished for just being 'American'.  
 
I disagree.  This is a corporation being authoritarian in deciding what is acceptable or unacceptable social behaviour.  And an implementation of the proposed policy has financial consequences / penalties or actual fines as would a government entity.
westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Oct 11, 2022 - 10:58am

kurt:  This is not corporate fascism.

Corporate fascism is more akin to the elbows up Neo-Mercantilism practiced by both President Trump and President Biden.  


But otherwise, I agree with your sentiment.  Misinformation and lying are key components of American culture.   Consumers should not be punished for just being 'American'.  
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 9, 2022 - 1:03pm

This seems like the right place to post this example of attempted corporate fascism.

Found this over at Discogs where we are all forced to use Pay Pal for all transactions conducted on the site.  The comments section is also interesting as well.

.
PayPal Pulls Back, Says It Won’t Fine Customers $2,500 for ‘Misinformation’ after Backlash
islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 9, 2022 - 8:05am

 sirdroseph wrote:

Keep showing those colors.

sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Not here, I tell you wat
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 9, 2022 - 6:57am

Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar

Location: Dumbf*ckistan


Posted: Oct 7, 2022 - 12:42pm

Michael Flynn’s ReAwaken roadshow recruits ‘Army of God’
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar

Location: Dumbf*ckistan


Posted: Sep 11, 2022 - 7:20am

Idaho librarian resigns over ‘atmosphere of extremism’ and ‘intimidation tactics’
R_P

R_P Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 27, 2022 - 11:09pm

Fascists In Our Midst - Chris Hedges
Supreme Court rulings, including the overturning of Roe v. Wade, herald the ascendancy of Christian fascism in the United States.
haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 8, 2019 - 8:44am



 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:



I didn't mean to do that in the least. In no way do I mean to exonerate the people who voted for him or who later aided and abetted the war and holocaust. Hitler appears to have been a very sick person, yet enough Germans voted for him. But not the majority. And certainly not all Germans. You don't need a consensus for a country to go off the rails and lose its moral compass. This is the very lesson that history teaches us but often gets overlooked, particularly when Germany and Germans as a whole are painted black. IMO that is a dangerous over-simplification and misses the point - it really could happen anywhere, given the right conditions. Someone lets the dogs out and the passive majority don't have the balls to take a stand against it, or tacitly, through their inaction, approve it.  And those few courageous individuals that do protest get eliminated. It is a smaller step into collective madness than most people realize.


 
 


Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 8, 2019 - 7:37am

NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
I didn't mean to do that in the least. In no way do I mean to exonerate the people who voted for him or who later aided and abetted the war and holocaust. Hitler appears to have been a very sick person, yet enough Germans voted for him. But not the majority. And certainly not all Germans. You don't need a consensus for a country to go off the rails and lose its moral compass. This is the very lesson that history teaches us but often gets overlooked, particularly when Germany and Germans as a whole are painted black. IMO that is a dangerous over-simplification and misses the point - it really could happen anywhere, given the right conditions. Someone lets the dogs out and the passive majority don't have the balls to take a stand against it, or tacitly, through their inaction, approve it.  And those few courageous individuals that do protest get eliminated. It is a smaller step into collective madness than most people realize.

The bottom line (that it could happen anywhere) is dead on, and our history proves it. We didn't slaughter our Japanese-American population but we took al the steps necessary to make it possible. We did slaughter our native population, both to broad public approval.

Fortunately the vast majority of both countries are ashamed of those actions in the past, but the re-emergence of populism in both places is horrifying. Both countries should know better.
NoEnzLefttoSplit

NoEnzLefttoSplit Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 7, 2019 - 11:49am



 westslope wrote:

Prior to the rise of German fascism, Germany was defeated in WW I and then humiliated in the Treaty of Versailles.  Nothing similar has occurred in regards to the USA.

Trumpism will not lead to fascism.  But it appears to have accelerated the decline of US hegemony.    As a result, the USA will be less powerful and less wealthy.  It will have lost some ability to diplomatically influence global events in a cost-effective manner.   

Worst yet, Americans will have earned a reputation for speaking with a forked tongue and unilaterally ripping up international agreements.  

Worst of all, more and more people will wonder if Americans truly believe in rules-based freemarket capitalism and will wonder if all that  freemarket rhetoric  in recent decades has been nothing but a smoke-screen.    Proof in the pudding?  Cuba.  

 

I also don't think the US will go down that road. But the old consensus of playing by the (sometimes unspoken) rules between the two main parties has well and truly been trodden in the dirt, which I find dangerous. There now appears to be a lot more distrust and suspicion between sides and little sign of a willingness to cooperate. 
Re Germany and WWI... very true. But I don't think the roots of fascism necessarily lie in a real grievance. A perceived grievance can suffice, even when entirely concocted.
NoEnzLefttoSplit

NoEnzLefttoSplit Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 7, 2019 - 8:40am



 Lazy8 wrote:
NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
I think you should read up on your history of the Weimar Republic. Back then most people were shit scared of socialism  (Bolshevism to be more precise) as you seem to be now and industrial interests were happier with the idea of supporting the National Socialists than running the risk of a communist revolution (which btw came damn close to succeeding in Germany) . Also try to put yourselves in the shoes of someone in the early 1930s before the Holocaust had happened. A helluva of a lot of moderate German's supported the National Socialists under the mistaken impression that the extreme rhetoric wasn't really meant that way. And then when people started getting carted off on trains the truth was so appalling they turned a collective blind eye to it in a case of mass psychological dissonance. Very few individuals saw what was really happening and those that dared to protest got eliminated.  

Sadly, it is a small step from the empty rhetoric to the appalling reality. I don't think any country is immune to this risk. Not one single one.

While your history is mostly on the mark you are giving the German populace too much of a pass on antisemitism. The Nazi scapegoating didn't come from thin air, they tapped into a deep well of racist sentiment. After the war, when the extent of the atrocities was clear most Germans would say they didn't know what was going on—state control of the media saw to that. But the machinery of mass extermination brushed up against ordinary people in countless ways. The ignorance was willful, and had they known most Germans would have approved.
 

 
I didn't mean to do that in the least. In no way do I mean to exonerate the people who voted for him or who later aided and abetted the war and holocaust. Hitler appears to have been a very sick person, yet enough Germans voted for him. But not the majority. And certainly not all Germans. You don't need a consensus for a country to go off the rails and lose its moral compass. This is the very lesson that history teaches us but often gets overlooked, particularly when Germany and Germans as a whole are painted black. IMO that is a dangerous over-simplification and misses the point - it really could happen anywhere, given the right conditions. Someone lets the dogs out and the passive majority don't have the balls to take a stand against it, or tacitly, through their inaction, approve it.  And those few courageous individuals that do protest get eliminated. It is a smaller step into collective madness than most people realize.


 
westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Jul 7, 2019 - 7:43am


Prior to the rise of German fascism, Germany was defeated in WW I and then humiliated in the Treaty of Versailles.  Nothing similar has occurred in regards to the USA.

Trumpism will not lead to fascism.  But it appears to have accelerated the decline of US hegemony.    As a result, the USA will be less powerful and less wealthy.  It will have lost some ability to diplomatically influence global events in a cost-effective manner.   

Worst yet, Americans will have earned a reputation for speaking with a forked tongue and unilaterally ripping up international agreements.  

Worst of all, more and more people will wonder if Americans truly believe in rules-based freemarket capitalism and will wonder if all that  freemarket rhetoric  in recent decades has been nothing but a smoke-screen.    Proof in the pudding?  Cuba.  

Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 7, 2019 - 7:35am

NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
I think you should read up on your history of the Weimar Republic. Back then most people were shit scared of socialism  (Bolshevism to be more precise) as you seem to be now and industrial interests were happier with the idea of supporting the National Socialists than running the risk of a communist revolution (which btw came damn close to succeeding in Germany) . Also try to put yourselves in the shoes of someone in the early 1930s before the Holocaust had happened. A helluva of a lot of moderate German's supported the National Socialists under the mistaken impression that the extreme rhetoric wasn't really meant that way. And then when people started getting carted off on trains the truth was so appalling they turned a collective blind eye to it in a case of mass psychological dissonance. Very few individuals saw what was really happening and those that dared to protest got eliminated.  

Sadly, it is a small step from the empty rhetoric to the appalling reality. I don't think any country is immune to this risk. Not one single one.

While your history is mostly on the mark you are giving the German populace too much of a pass on antisemitism. The Nazi scapegoating didn't come from thin air, they tapped into a deep well of racist sentiment. After the war, when the extent of the atrocities was clear most Germans would say they didn't know what was going on—state control of the media saw to that. But the machinery of mass extermination brushed up against ordinary people in countless ways. The ignorance was willful, and had they known most Germans would have approved.
 

miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3283.1 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 7, 2019 - 7:21am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

I think you should read up on your history of the Weimar Republic. Back then most people were shit scared of socialism  (Bolshevism to be more precise) as you seem to be now and industrial interests were happier with the idea of supporting the National Socialists than running the risk of a communist revolution (which btw came damn close to succeeding in Germany) . Also try to put yourselves in the shoes of someone in the early 1930s before the Holocaust had happened. A helluva of a lot of moderate German's supported the National Socialists under the mistaken impression that the extreme rhetoric wasn't really meant that way. And then when people started getting carted off on trains the truth was so appalling they turned a collective blind eye to it in a case of mass psychological dissonance. Very few individuals saw what was really happening and those that dared to protest got eliminated.  

Sadly, it is a small step from the empty rhetoric to the appalling reality. I don't think any country is immune to this risk. Not one single one.

 

that article is a bit over the top however all of this sort of reminds me of a book i read long ago
 
The Ominous Parallels: The End of Freedom in America is a 1982 book by philosopher Leonard Peikoff, in which the author compares the culture of the United States with the culture of Germany leading up to the Nazis. 
Each of the philosophic principles essential to the rise of Nazism in Germany has a counterpart in present-day America.


Is the freest country on earth moving toward totalitarian dictatorship? What were the factors that enabled the Nazis to seize power in pre-war Germany? Do those same conditions exist in America today?

These are the questions raised — and answered, with frightening clarity — by Leonard Peikoff, Ayn Rand's intellectual heir, in his powerful book The Ominous Parallels.

"We are drifting to the future, not moving purposefully," Peikoff warns. "But we are drifting as Germany moved, in the same direction, for the same kind of reason."

Some of the "ominous parallels" between pre-Hitler Germany and the United States that Peikoff identifies are:
  • Liberals who demand public control over the use and disposal of private property — social security, more taxes, more government control over the energy industry, medicine, broadcasting, etc.
  • Conservatives who demand government control over our intellectual and moral life — prayer in the schools, literary censorship, government intervention in the teaching of biology, the anti-abortion movement, etc.
  • Political parties devoid of principles or direction and moved at random by pressure groups, each demanding still more controls.
  • A "progressive," anti-intellectual educational system that, from kindergarten to graduate school, creates students who can't read or write — students brainwashed into the feeling that their minds are helpless and they must adapt to "society," that there is no absolute truth and that morality is whatever society says it is.
  • A student radical movement (from the 1960's through the violent anti-nukers and ecology fanatics of today) who are, Peikoff maintains, the "pre-Hitler youth movement resurrected." The radicals are nature worshippers who attack the middle class, science, technology, and business.
  • The rise of defiant old-world racial hatreds disguised as "ethnic-identity" movements and "affirmative action."
  • A pervasive atmosphere of decadence, moral bankruptcy, and nihilist art accompanied by the rise of escapist mystic cults of every kind — astrology, "alternative medicine," Orientalists, extrasensory perception, etc.
In an introduction to Peikoff's book, Ayn Rand describes The Ominous Parallels as, "the first book by an Objectivist philosopher other than myself" and goes on to say that, "If you do not wish to be a victim of today's philosophical bankruptcy, I recommend The Ominous Parallels as protection and ammunition. It will protect you from supporting, unwittingly, the ideas that are destroying you and the world."

In brilliantly reasoned prose, Peikoff argues that the deepest roots of German Nazism lie not in existential crises, but in ideas — not in Germany's military defeat in World War I or the economic disasters of the Weimar Republic that followed, but in the philosophy that dominated pre-Nazi Germany. Although it was mediated by crises, Peikoff demonstrates that German Nazism was the inevitable climax of a centuries-long philosophic development, preaching three fundamental ideas: the worship of unreason, the demand for self-sacrifice and the elevation of society or the state above the individual.

"These ideas," Peikoff says, "are the essence of Nazism and they are exactly what our leading universities are now spreading throughout this country. This is the basic cause of all the other parallels."

NoEnzLefttoSplit

NoEnzLefttoSplit Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 7, 2019 - 12:34am



 sirdroseph wrote:
 Red_Dragon wrote: 
Because it doesn't.
{#Lol}
 Seriously don't we have enough rabid hyperbole already?  Facism requires strong central control i.e. government, in 2019 American Facism will never be implemented through the personality of one person who is authoritarian in nature.  Facism will occur at the behest of us through voting for those that preach for the increase of Government power under the guise of compassion, social justice and equality.  In short in a modern day society, if we were to de evolve into outright Facism it will come under the banner of Socialism, but I don't even think that will happen till the resources dwindle, worldwide migration ramps up coming straight for us and population reaches dire levels when all of society will break down anyway.  Odds are neither you or I will see the outcome of this debate, God willing.
{#Pray}



 
I think you should read up on your history of the Weimar Republic. Back then most people were shit scared of socialism  (Bolshevism to be more precise) as you seem to be now and industrial interests were happier with the idea of supporting the National Socialists than running the risk of a communist revolution (which btw came damn close to succeeding in Germany) . Also try to put yourselves in the shoes of someone in the early 1930s before the Holocaust had happened. A helluva of a lot of moderate German's supported the National Socialists under the mistaken impression that the extreme rhetoric wasn't really meant that way. And then when people started getting carted off on trains the truth was so appalling they turned a collective blind eye to it in a case of mass psychological dissonance. Very few individuals saw what was really happening and those that dared to protest got eliminated.  

Sadly, it is a small step from the empty rhetoric to the appalling reality. I don't think any country is immune to this risk. Not one single one.
sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Not here, I tell you wat
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 6, 2019 - 8:53am

 Red_Dragon wrote: 
Because it doesn't. {#Lol} Seriously don't we have enough rabid hyperbole already?  Facism requires strong central control i.e. government, in 2019 American Facism will never be implemented through the personality of one person who is authoritarian in nature.  Facism will occur at the behest of us through voting for those that preach for the increase of Government power under the guise of compassion, social justice and equality.  In short in a modern day society, if we were to de evolve into outright Facism it will come under the banner of Socialism, but I don't even think that will happen till the resources dwindle, worldwide migration ramps up coming straight for us and population reaches dire levels when all of society will break down anyway.  Odds are neither you or I will see the outcome of this debate, God willing.{#Pray}


Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar

Location: Dumbf*ckistan


Posted: Jul 6, 2019 - 7:54am

Symbols over Values: Why America in 2019 feels like Germany in 1937
Page: 1, 2, 3  Next