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Wordle - daily game - NoEnzLefttoSplit - Apr 15, 2024 - 9:11pm
 
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Israel - R_P - Apr 15, 2024 - 6:24pm
 
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Things You Thought Today - Red_Dragon - Apr 12, 2024 - 3:05pm
 
It's the economy stupid. - Red_Dragon - Apr 12, 2024 - 10:17am
 
• • • The Once-a-Day • • •  - oldviolin - Apr 12, 2024 - 8:49am
 
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Dear Bill - oldviolin - Apr 12, 2024 - 8:16am
 
Australia has Disappeared - haresfur - Apr 12, 2024 - 1:04am
 
Radio Paradise in Foobar2000 - gvajda - Apr 11, 2024 - 6:53pm
 
The Obituary Page - KurtfromLaQuinta - Apr 11, 2024 - 2:33pm
 
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Joe Biden - black321 - Apr 11, 2024 - 7:43am
 
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260,000 Posts in one thread? - GeneP59 - Apr 10, 2024 - 8:15am
 
NPR Listeners: Is There Liberal Bias In Its Reporting? - black321 - Apr 9, 2024 - 2:11pm
 
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RP Windows Desktop Notification Applet - gvajda - Apr 9, 2024 - 9:55am
 
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How do I get songs into My Favorites - Huey - Apr 7, 2024 - 11:29pm
 
Pernicious Pious Proclivities Particularized Prodigiously - R_P - Apr 7, 2024 - 5:14pm
 
Lyrics that strike a chord today... - Isabeau - Apr 7, 2024 - 12:50pm
 
Dialing 1-800-Manbird - oldviolin - Apr 7, 2024 - 11:18am
 
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Baseball, anyone? - Red_Dragon - Apr 3, 2024 - 3:54pm
 
Russia - black321 - Apr 3, 2024 - 12:57pm
 
Fascism In America - Red_Dragon - Apr 3, 2024 - 8:39am
 
Democratic Party - kurtster - Apr 3, 2024 - 2:16am
 
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Agenda driven Radio 2050 - R_P - Apr 2, 2024 - 1:23pm
 
Index » Regional/Local » Africa/Middle East » Israel Page: 1, 2, 3 ... 195, 196, 197  Next
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R_P

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Posted: Apr 15, 2024 - 6:24pm

The Lipstick of Record
Leaked NYT Gaza Memo Tells Journalists to Avoid Words “Genocide,” “Ethnic Cleansing,” and “Occupied Territory”
Amid the internal battle over the New York Times’s coverage of Israel’s war, top editors handed down a set of directives.
haresfur

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Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 15, 2024 - 6:21pm

 kurtster wrote:

This applies to Israel and Gaza how ?

Did not Gaza invade and attack Israel on October 7th ?

Or is the opinion that October 7th never happened now an established truth and fact ?

Which means that Israel is acting in Gaza without cause or instigation ?

Doesn't matter now that Iran has actually attacked Israel. 

Israel is the one that is suffering from a genocidal attack now. 

Or is Iran attacking Israel strictly for shits and giggles ?  Asking for a friend.


Fair enough getting this back on topic. I was more replying to his general world-view that excuses Russia.

I can only reiterate my basic stance. The state of Israel is there and has the right to exist. The settlements in the West Bank are very destabilising for a peaceful solution. Israel could have done more to stabilise life in Gaza, even with Hamas in power. Hamas might be amenable to a peaceful resolution, depending on who you believe and whether you think the pre-1967 war or after the 1967 attack on Israel is the appropriate set of pencil marks on the map. But Hamas' official stance that Israel shouldn't exist is fundamentally at odds with a two state solution, as is the current Israeli government's position. And the October 7 attacks were horrifying and warranted a response. As I have said before, the fact that Hamas is weaker militarily doesn't somehow make their cause or actions just. Given that, the Palestinians have been shooting themselves in the foot for decades. I do believe Israel's response has been over the top and has not done enough to avoid harm to civilians. Yes, that is an understatement. The whole situation is fucking tragic.

Basically, I want to say to the Israelis and the Palestinians what I said, oh, 40 years ago, "Ok, we know what you are willing to sacrifice for war. What are you willing to sacrifice for peace?" 
R_P

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Posted: Apr 15, 2024 - 6:11pm

 haresfur wrote:
Pragmatism is a thing that keeps us from spiralling into world war. Remember when the Libyans murdered a British police woman from their embassy in London? The Brits didn't go attack Libya (although they did allow the US to use air bases in Britain for a later attack around a different issue). Tit-for-tat is a sure way to escalate into situations neither side really want. Cameron didn't say what strong action would entail, but I hope he would have the sense to find a solution where everyone can back down. 

The best solution for everyone right now is restraint, which incidentally is what the US is pushing for, in spite of your insistence that they are the warmongers around the world.

Restraint for thee, impunity for me...
U.S., U.K. hit dozens of Houthi targets in latest retaliatory strike

Israeli restraint seems unlikely, much like the last six months.

haresfur

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Location: The Golden Triangle
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Posted: Apr 15, 2024 - 5:53pm

 R_P wrote:



Pragmatism is a thing that keeps us from spiralling into world war. Remember when the Libyans murdered a British police woman from their embassy in London? The Brits didn't go attack Libya (although they did allow the US to use air bases in Britain for a later attack around a different issue). Tit-for-tat is a sure way to escalate into situations neither side really want. Cameron didn't say what strong action would entail, but I hope he would have the sense to find a solution where everyone can back down. 

The best solution for everyone right now is restraint, which incidentally is what the US is pushing for, in spite of your insistence that they are the warmongers around the world.
Proclivities

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Posted: Apr 15, 2024 - 5:02pm

 kurtster wrote:

...
Israel is the one that is suffering from a genocidal attack now. 


Or is Iran attacking Israel strictly for shits and giggles ?  Asking for a friend.

I think not.  Look at the numbers of dead.  Allegedly 90+ % of missiles and drones were intercepted.  I don't believe Netanyahu is actively committing genocide, but it's pretty close - closer than a launching bunch of arbitrary missiles and drones which are apparently easily intercepted.
R_P

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Posted: Apr 15, 2024 - 1:47pm

 black321 wrote:
Most papers buried the 4/1 Damascus attack  

Always helpful for some to produce another "unprovoked" claim.  Also overshadowed by the attack of Israel on the World Central Kitchen staff in Gaza.

black321

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Posted: Apr 15, 2024 - 12:06pm

 R_P wrote:



Most papers buried the 4/1 Damascus attack  
R_P

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Posted: Apr 15, 2024 - 10:25am


Steely_D

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Posted: Apr 15, 2024 - 1:00am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

alright.. there is a lot to unpick here and I am not going to do it tonight.  I'll get back to you when I have time. This deserves a longer response.


Actually, based on previous exchanges, I don’t think it does. 
kurtster

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Posted: Apr 14, 2024 - 7:14pm

 haresfur wrote:
Supporting a sovereign nation that was invaded by a larger more powerful imperialist state doesn't make anyone a war monger. Making excuses for the invader does.
 
This applies to Israel and Gaza how ?

Did not Gaza invade and attack Israel on October 7th ?

Or is the opinion that October 7th never happened now an established truth and fact ?

Which means that Israel is acting in Gaza without cause or instigation ?

Doesn't matter now that Iran has actually attacked Israel. 

Israel is the one that is suffering from a genocidal attack now. 

Or is Iran attacking Israel strictly for shits and giggles ?  Asking for a friend.
haresfur

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Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 14, 2024 - 5:52pm

 thisbody wrote:

Even by your short reply you signify you don't honestly mean what you say. - So. There you go - as a warmonger which you have always been on this forum.
...accusing others of not being honest.
...accusing others of being anti-american
... ... ... ... 


Supporting a sovereign nation that was invaded by a larger more powerful imperialist state doesn't make anyone a war monger. Making excuses for the invader does.
Isabeau

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Posted: Apr 14, 2024 - 5:03pm

 thisbody wrote:

Even by your short reply you signify you don't honestly mean what you say. - So. There you go - as a warmonger which you have always been on this forum.
...accusing others of not being honest.
...accusing others of being anti-american
... ... ... ... 




thisbody

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Posted: Apr 14, 2024 - 1:10pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
alright.. there is a lot to unpick here and I am not going to do it tonight.  I'll get back to you when I have time. This deserves a longer response.

Even by your short reply you signify you don't honestly mean what you say. - So. There you go - as a warmonger which you have always been on this forum.
...accusing others of not being honest.
...accusing others of being anti-american
... ... ... ... 
thisbody

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Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 14, 2024 - 1:01pm

Diagnosing Israel’s Imperial Narcissism - Libertarian Institute
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 14, 2024 - 12:45pm

 thisbody wrote:

There could be many things to say about imperialistic ambitions......
In my opinion it is false to blame these on Russia & Iran, but not on the US. Just count the US military bases around the world. The US are the No 1 top hegemon on Earth these days, and not Russia, and not China! ...just simply because CAPITALISM... I think the major conflict lies right there:
The USA began selling their belongings to private investors in the 1970s. Land, gold, and everything. The rest of the West followed suit. Now we have a mess of capitalist exploitation where roads, bridges, rails, hospitals, doctors, and even food (restaurants) can't be paid for anymore. The publice has sold all their silver and gold and even the price for rice or wheat is depending on the stock market with terrible consequences for entire nations. 
The promised "democracy" in many cases has been bringing famine and diseases instead. This goes on even today, as the trade for basic goods (such as rice - the world's no. 1 food) on the stock markets goes on without any hindrance, in some cases leading to famines for whole peoples.

I end here for now, as we can lube the world-axis together...






alright.. there is a lot to unpick here and I am not going to do it tonight.  I'll get back to you when I have time. This deserves a longer response.


thisbody

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Posted: Apr 14, 2024 - 12:19pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
I honour your ambitions, if that is what your true ambitions are. I even share them, in the form you stated above. But these ambitions are categorically opposed to the imperialistic ambitions of Russia and the arch-conservative religious doctrine of Iran. 

All I expect of people is intellectual honesty. I am not entirely convinced you are bringing it to the discussion.

There could be many things to say about imperialistic ambitions......
In my opinion it is false to blame these on Russia & Iran, but not on the US. Just count the US military bases around the world. The US are the No 1 top hegemon on Earth these days, and not Russia, and not China! ...just simply because CAPITALISM... I think the major conflict lies right there:
The USA began selling their belongings to private investors in the 1970s. Land, gold, and everything. The rest of the West followed suit. Now we have a mess of capitalist exploitation where roads, bridges, rails, hospitals, doctors, and even food (restaurants) can't be paid for anymore. The publice has sold all their silver and gold and even the price for rice or wheat is depending on the stock market with terrible consequences for entire nations. 
The promised "democracy" in many cases has been bringing famine and diseases instead. This goes on even today, as the trade for basic goods (such as rice - the world's no. 1 food) on the stock markets goes on without any hindrance, in some cases leading to famines for whole peoples.

I end here for now, as I think we can (should) lube the world-axis together...



I'm being honest - even if you're not.


NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 14, 2024 - 12:11pm

 thisbody wrote:

The one who trained you in political arguing deserves intellectual praise in an intellectual Olymp (and only in a this'ya ivory tower). My rationale is much simpler. Not siding with Russia, nor Iran, I plead for peace. A peace where no-one is hungry for more money, and more power. A peace, where all people of the earth are content with what they have. Because there is enough to share among us, and no-one needs to go hungry.

All people are equal. No-one is above another. Equality. Fraternity. World brotherhood.

This is what motivates me.

Call me an idiot, call me demented, whatever you like. This is what motivates me.

But don't try to fight me, in your best interest, as I don't start a fight but usually end it, and at war, I don't take prisoners. This is what I can tell you about me and my motivation, Bruce.


I honour your ambitions, if that is what your true ambitions are. I even share them, in the form you stated above. But these ambitions are categorically opposed to the imperialistic ambitions of Russia and the arch-conservative religious doctrine of Iran. 

All I expect of people is intellectual honesty. I am not entirely convinced you are bringing it to the discussion.
thisbody

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Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 14, 2024 - 12:01pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
Sigh, again Täter-Opfer-Umkehr..   

1. Russia is the aggressor in the Ukrainian war. It even broke the treaties that itself signed. And you can't blame it on the US anymore, because the U.S. has been doing sweet FA for the last six months, and even before that it set more red lines on Ukraine than it ever did on Russia.  Obviously NONE of this is the fault of the U.S. If it were, this war would have been well and truly won by now. 

2. The Iranian regime is currently trying to keep its grip on power against a groundswell of political opposition (notably led by women who have a guts-full of  aging religious fanatics telling them how to live.

You can twist it all you like,  but by supporting Russia and Iran, you're on the side of the misogynist reactionaries who don't want us to have any freedoms. 

The one who trained you in political arguing deserves intellectual praise in an intellectual Olymp (and only in a this'ya ivory tower). My rationale is much simpler. Not siding with Russia, nor Iran, I plead for peace. A peace where no-one is hungry for more money, and more power. A peace, where all people of the earth are content with what they have. Because there is enough to share among us, and no-one needs to go hungry.

All people are equal. No-one is above another. Equality. Fraternity. World brotherhood.

This is what motivates me.

Call me an idiot, call me demented, whatever you like. This is what motivates me.

But don't try to fight me, in your best interest, as I don't start a fight but usually end it, and at war, I don't take prisoners. This is what I can tell you about me and my motivation, Bruce.
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 14, 2024 - 11:45am

 thisbody wrote:

If you wouldn't advise for bombing the hell out of the rest of the world (the parts in which you apparently don't live) this could actually be a plan, Bruce!


Sigh, again Täter-Opfer-Umkehr..   

1. Russia is the aggressor in the Ukrainian war. It even broke the treaties that itself signed. And you can't blame it on the US anymore, because the U.S. has been doing sweet FA for the last six months, and even before that it set more red lines on Ukraine than it ever did on Russia.  Obviously NONE of this is the fault of the U.S. If it were, this war would have been well and truly won by now. 

2. The Iranian regime is currently trying to keep its grip on power against a groundswell of political opposition (notably led by women who have a guts-full of  aging religious fanatics telling them how to live.

You can twist it all you like,  but by supporting Russia and Iran, you're on the side of the misogynist reactionaries who don't want us to have any freedoms.  



thisbody

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Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 14, 2024 - 11:20am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
you're cute. I have two kids. I want them to grow up in civilised countries where people respect each other for the mere fact that they are human,, where they can speak their mind, not suffer retribution for it, vote for whom they want and have the maximum of opportunity to lead rich and fulfilling lives.

If you wouldn't advise for bombing the hell out of the rest of the world (the parts in which you apparently don't live) this could actually be a plan, Bruce!

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