Lazy8 wrote:
Here's a more detailed follow-up article. He got a year for this but may have run afoul of some other probation stipulations. 

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
I vaguely remember something about the original armorer being fired or something.

Not to be a conspiracy theorist but I try to think about how the whole scenario unfolded. Why were there live rounds on set? Well, the most benign explanation I can think of is that someone brought them around so they could shoot bottles in the ample downtime. "Hey we're out here in the middle of the desert with no one around. Let's see how hard it is to actually hit something with one of these things." But then there would have to be a weird chain of events with a gun not getting unloaded ("Hurry the hell up and bring me that gun?") or getting loaded with the wrong stuff when it shouldn't have been loaded at all...

Or conspiracy theory of someone doing it intentionally. If the investigators did a good job they would have a very detailed timeline or several detailed timelines if stories diverged.

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
Yeah, I remember the Cody incident. As always in this kind of incident there are many layers of safeguards, so when something goes wrong there were many layers of failure.

One thing that has always bothered me about that incident was that multiple live rounds were fired. Blanks have very low recoil but typical cowboy hand guns have a LOT more. How is it that someone kept shooting after the first round went off? This is not a subtle difference,

From reports on the scene at least one of the re-enactors was firing a cap and ball revolver. that complicates sorting out whose gun fired the live round, but jeebus folks...

If someone deliberately put a live round on set that person needs a stretch in jail. Negligence is one thing but that just ain't funny.

 Lazy8 wrote:

The trial is going to be interesting because the armorer was a rookie, like it was her first film that she was lead for, and didn't I hear something about someone trying to sandbag her? Deliberately mixed live and dummy rounds or something I don't know what I'm talking about? Maybe that was just a preliminary defense strategy.

Anyway, it brought to mind the event a few years ago in Cody Wyoming where at the nightly "shootout" in the street in front of the Irma Hotel, one of the guns deflated a river raft half a block away. That could have easily killed a few tourists.

 Lazy8 wrote: 
This is the bottom line.  Baldwin was also the producer and thus also management.  He is ultimately responsible for what goes on on the set.

In this case, involuntary manslaughter is appropriate and if convicted, a rather lightweight sentence for taking a life, regardless of circumstances.

A conviction should require time in prison, especially since he is / was management.  

 islander wrote:
The armorer on the shoot has a lot to answer for.

As for prop guns...it was a western. That means single-action revolvers, and you could create one that was incapable of firing a round of any kind, but that would include blanks. And if you're going to be careless enough to have a live round on set you'd probably be careless enough to have a blank-capable gun when you should have a completely inert one.

Even blanks are dangerous at the range involved in this accident. Everyone involved should have known better.

 Lazy8 wrote:

I wouldn't consider him political as much as typically arrogant like most of those who seek office. I do agree with most of the rest of your assessment. I'm also completely gobsmacked that a) actual firearms are allowed on a movie set and b)if a, then why are actual ammunition allowed on a movie set.  I mean they create entire cities / planets / space stations / cars / airplane ect. that don't really exist, so why not just make a prop gun... oh, wait, they do make prop guns.... GoTo: a).   Why would you ever put yourself in the situation where this could occur?

 kcar wrote:
Well, he is on the board for People For the American Way and has considered running for office in New York, but whatever.

Like I said, he has blamed others for the accident—and I do consider it an accident, though one he is ultimately responsible for. He hired the people who helped him make that mistake, and he made mistakes no one I ever taught gun safety to would make.

is description of what happened is utterly implausible to anyone familiar with the type of firearm used. He was goofing off with a deadly instrument he didn't understand and his actions—not his alone, but his was the last link in a chain of mistakes—killed someone.

 Lazy8 wrote:
I would not call Alec Baldwin a high-ranking member of a political tribe. He had great success with imitating Trump on SNL but IIRC he stopped doing that well before the 2020 election. The press certainly had a field day with his voicemail temper tantrum towards his daughter and his fight over a NYC parking space. No deference then.

AFAICT Baldwin has always maintained that he was told the gun was "cold" and could not fire a bullet. Has he changed his story. I don't know: simply haven't followed this story. It is weird and tragic.

 Steely_D wrote:
I suspect that the reason it took as long as it did was that the authorities were tiptoeing around charging a high-ranking member of their (your) political tribe. I just hope the jury is less partisan than those authorities.

The chattering class gonna chatter. Not seeing how they're going to get much mileage out of this. The shooting community has already had its say (surprise! Quite negative) but nobody cares what they think.

 Lazy8 wrote:
If you're referring to my post, I don't see anything in there but justice (as much as is possible) and moving on. What I don't want to see is the Crazy Right™ will treat him like Hillary's emails and Obama's birth certificate and Hunter's laptop - while they drop the ball with the debt ceiling and schools and gun massacres and racism and disenfranchisement and climate change and everything else where they're ineffectual at attempting to improve America, really.
I don't see it as mercy, but as a misguided obsession by the losers who cling to every thread they can.

 Lazy8 wrote:
“When you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything.”

 Steely_D wrote:
Why should this be forgotten, and so many others in similar situations Must Be Made An Example Of? Why does Alec Baldwin—who dissembled and lied and blamed everybody but himself for this horrible consequence of a moment's carelessness—deserve mercy, but any number of ordinary folks in similar situation deserve the worst we can do to them?

 Red_Dragon wrote:

That did take forever. Fine the guy an incomprehensible amount, make him do an insane amount of public service, and get it the hell off the news. A horrible horrible accident, and now it should be in our (not the family's) rear-view mirror.

about bloody time

 black321 wrote:
I agree with much of what you say on this. This isn't the biggest news story, but it's been used by the right and left to amplify political taking points. It served to keep commentary going after all election noise.

I snorted in contempt when I read some comment that Griner obviously hated America because she kneeled during the national anthem. Did Jerry Jones hate America when he kneeled during the anthem with Dallas Cowboys players?

Whelan wasn't on offer. According to the NYT, the Russians wanted an assassin held by the Germans. The Biden admin asked Germany if it would go along; it would not. These exchanges often involve unsavory people but the world keeps spinning.

 black321 wrote:
I do not agree with that if we are talking about the editorial pages of newspapers. I do think that the advent and proliferation of 24-hour cable news outlets has  blurred the lines.

 steeler wrote:
Right, but media does a good job confusing the consumer that it is also news. 

 black321 wrote:

Of course, as you know, editorials are opinions and are meant to be so. 

 kcar wrote: And Whelan has been in jail for four years for doing nothing. Or if he is a spy, working for the US, and Griner a few months for self inflicted stupidity.  

Listen, this isn’t the worst thing going on in the world or the US.  We can move on.  
Regarding the media, there is still plenty of good reporting, but you need to stay out of the editorials. Yesterday the Wall Street journal had a very good piece explaining how the US were trying to negotiate a two for one exchange but Russia wouldn’t agree. So we chose Griner over Whelan.  Then in the op-ed section, there was the blatant, biased conservative ranting.