Teaching making change in school isn't so much for the person making change as for the person getting the change. When I was in France many years ago, short changing people seemed to be a national sport. Late one night as I stumbled home (just tired, not drunk, honest) I stopped at a weirdly open late bakery and bought some baklava. The owner gave me my change and as I was staring blankly at my still stretched out hand,, he looked at me and added some more coins.
Ok, nevermind if kids won't ever pay cash.
When I worked at a liquor store in Oakland, I got really fast and most people either didn't care or they had their head in the game and were comfortable with how I did it: fan out the coins in one hand and say "...that makes $4" and then fan out the bills and say "and that's $20." It's only when they care and are expecting me to say "your change is $16.33" that they balked. Easy enough to slow down and show them, though, because the money's still in my hand.
Nah, it shouldn't. It's a job-specific skill and it's not related to being able to do math. The minute I catch someone trying to do math in their head, I stop them (when I'm the trainer). It's just counting.
Teaching making change in school isn't so much for the person making change as for the person getting the change. When I was in France many years ago, short changing people seemed to be a national sport. Late one night as I stumbled home (just tired, not drunk, honest) I stopped at a weirdly open late bakery and bought some baklava. The owner gave me my change and as I was staring blankly at my still stretched out hand,, he looked at me and added some more coins.
At our favorite South of the border fruit and veggie stand, they often prompt the clueless gringos with "tienes trenta dos pesos?" when some one is trying to buy 132 peso worth of stuff with a 500 peso bill. I've tried to explain from the position behind them that they just want small bills so they don't use up all their change, but it usually ends up with the person emptying their pockets and the cashier picking through their coins to get it right.
There was a time when North of the Border the conversation would be like that, "do you have 32¢?" or "I have the change," meaning yeah I just gave you a 20 but let me dig for coins. I imagine anyplace the cash registers don't have calculators, this is still common. You're making it easier on the cashier when they have to give you exactly $10 back, but you're also controlling the more difficult part of the exchange so everyone's happy. When they ask "do you have 32¢?" it may be that they are low on small bills but often it's a cue that they're paying attention and won't rip you off/don't try to claim you gave him a $100.
When I worked in Yellowstone, a lot of people (mostly not from the USA) would lay out everything in their purse/wallet/coffeecan* and let me pick through it for what I needed. I had this happen one time before I realized I needed to recruit the next person in line to watch what I was doing.
*I got one old guy on his literal trip of a lifetime, who took out a bill and said "is this still worth anything?" It was a $50 Silver Certificate from 1957 IIRC, absolutely mint condition except for the indentations from having been stored in coffee can for decades. I said absolutely, then at the end of my shift I bought it from the till. I didn't make a lot when I sold it so it's not like I gouged the guy.
I agree it's not exclusive to kids. I've had plenty of grownups hand me back the extra money with a *tsk* *tsk* you gave me too much money!
Nah, it shouldn't. It's a job-specific skill and it's not related to being able to do math. The minute I catch someone trying to do math in their head, I stop them (when I'm the trainer). It's just counting.
That's rote math knowledge, and it's something that's not as common as it was 50+ years ago. If you have to count a quarter, a dime, and a nickel...you can't make change quickly. Rote skills enable higher function and should be a goal for everyone that travels the educational system. All of the BS about experiential learning and "everyday math" is weakening our collective ability to reason at higher levels.
I will concede that using Apple pay for everything changes the amount of practice people get and eliminates the weight component of "change", but all of the examples listed below highlight the frustration that many feel when dealing with math that has been "hard-wired" since elementary school (decades and decades ago). It's frustrating to deal with those who never learned basic skills because they struggle to function at levels most of us expect from everyone.
I don't think making change is something we should be training people to do. K-8 education should cover that.
Nah, it shouldn't. It's a job-specific skill and it's not related to being able to do math. The minute I catch someone trying to do math in their head, I stop them (when I'm the trainer). It's just counting.
I write much of day for my job - I have to take notes, contact info, etc. I still like getting new pens and pads. I'm also a visual artist, so I often have a pen, pencil, or brush in my hand anyhow. Though when painting (either art or house-painting), I'm pretty ambidextrous.
Location: right behind you. no, over there. Gender:
Posted:
Feb 22, 2023 - 7:18am
Proclivities wrote:
I never liked having to write in cursive; it was great when by high school and college, teachers no longer demanded it. Then again, I'm left-handed and like most things, cursive (as well as calligraphy) was designed for right-handed people.
I HATED writing in cursive. Was told by several teachers especially in elementary and middle school that it was a skill I was going to need if I were ever to go to college. Well, here we are.
See also "you're not always going to have access to a calculator".
I never liked having to write in cursive; it was great when by high school and college, teachers no longer demanded it. Then again, I'm left-handed and like most things, cursive (as well as calligraphy) was designed for right-handed people.
I have had similar experiences as everyone else here with this "change" thing". And this discussion makes me wonder how the decline of cursive will rear its ugly head. I use it all the time myself but it's mostly (always?) done privately (notes to self, etc.) and does not involve social interaction or intercommunication. It's certainly a skill that has a reduced importance but doesn't seem to me that it's ready for the trash folder. If nothing else it may have value in developing cognative skills, but maybe those are heading to the trash folder as well.
"By golly, if I hadda learn it then everybody else gotta learn it too!"
I never liked having to write in cursive; it was great when by high school and college, teachers no longer demanded it. Then again, I'm left-handed and like most things, cursive (as well as calligraphy) was designed for right-handed people.
let me get out in front of this and say that I blame Joe Biden
I have had similar experiences as everyone else here with this "change" thing". And this discussion makes me wonder how the decline of cursive will rear its ugly head. I use it all the time myself but it's mostly (always?) done privately (notes to self, etc.) and does not involve social interaction or intercommunication. It's certainly a skill that has a reduced importance but doesn't seem to me that it's ready for the trash folder. If nothing else it may have value in developing cognative skills, but maybe those are heading to the trash folder as well.
"By golly, if I hadda learn it then everybody else gotta learn it too!"
This drives me nuts and not because kids, but the managers aren't good trainers. I actually like showing people how to make change.
I don't think making change is something we should be training people to do. K-8 education should cover that.
A 5-year-old...sure, but when working-age people can't process your intent it goes to a deeper lack of mental dexterity. Maybe most concerning is a lack of empathy (used in the generic sense of "putting yourself in someone else's shoes"). Not being able to understand the moment when someone gives you too much money in an odd configuration of currency ($21 when the cost is $10.25) is a tragic failure by and for all of us. That type of understanding is what builds community. Knowing (and caring) about what others want in daily interactions is an important life skill.
The year I turned 50, I lowered the average IQ of 2 demographic groups simultaneously. That's a trend that needs correction.
This drives me nuts and not because kids, but the managers aren't good trainers. I actually like showing people how to make change.
I've had similar things occur when paying with cash, but not just always from young people. Plenty of times I've gone into convenience stores or other shops with clerks well over 30 or 40 who get confused by something like a $20 bill and a single to pay for something that is $10.78, or give them a $5 bill and two quarters for something that is $5.47 . I think part of it is that fewer transactions have been cash transactions for quite a while now, so dealing with cash - especially in any way other than increments of fives or tens - can seem incongruous when they're in their "debit card grooves". However, other times - particularly in convenience stores or smaller businesses - the cashiers are thankful when I provide them with $1 bills or change (especially quarters) because they run out of those at busy times.
This drives me nuts and not because kids, but the managers aren't good trainers. I actually like showing people how to make change.
Yeah, these are training issues.
At our favorite South of the border fruit and veggie stand, they often prompt the clueless gringos with "tienes trenta dos pesos?" when some one is trying to buy 132 peso worth of stuff with a 500 peso bill. I've tried to explain from the position behind them that they just want small bills so they don't use up all their change, but it usually ends up with the person emptying their pockets and the cashier picking through their coins to get it right.
Story 1
My order was $10.37.
I gave the girl a $20 and the the 37¢ in coins so I didn't get back a bunch of dollar bills and change back. She stared at the coins and didn't know what to do with it. I had to explain I get a $10 bill back.
Story 2
I paid an order with some bills and about $3 in quarters that were collecting in my car.
She stared at the coins and didn't know what to do with it and called over a manager to count it.
Yup.
Story 1
Many years ago I was at some store in a mall. Like you, I handed the clerk - a late teens or 20-something guy - a bill and some change.
1st try: gave me back too little. No, that's not right, please try again.
2nd try, now using a calculator, gave me back too much. No, that's not right, please try again.
3rd try: I help him with the right answer, with the lineup behind me watching on, very unimpressed
I dunno what they've been teaching in school these days, but clearly its not the most basic things. - like math.
Imagine how much that store is losing - does the till EVER balance?
Story 2:
A MacDonald's a few yrs ago.
Bought a single sandwich and maybe a coffee.
Handed the teen girl a $5 bill.
She looks at the bill, pauses, then sideways again at the bill.
She says to me: I'm not taking this. It's counterfeit.
Jaw drop.
I ask her to call over her manager; she does
I tell him his staffer just told me I was trying to pass a counterfeit $5, and show him the bill.
Manager is silent, then apologizes. Offers me my food for comp, I say no. I pay with the same $5 bill.
I sit down to munch my meal
Manager comes over a few minute later to tell me he had sent her home.
The problem: my $5 bill was of the previous all paper type, not the current polymer style bill. This clueless teen with bad, bad, not good, decision making skills decides to accuse patrons of illegal activities. And I wonder where she was taught how to spot counterfeits?
Story 3:
Taking some relatives to the big, stupendous, dumb, massive mall in our city to do some shopping
Stopped in at one store selling handbags, wallets and such
Visitors decide to buy something, we go to the till
Behind said till is a silent sullen teen.
Silent because she's standing there sucking on a baby pacifier.
Me: Incredulous
Sheesh. How is it that these teens even get hired for retail - and are often left unsupervised to do their damage to the store rep, like #1 & #3.
Story 1
My order was $10.37.
I gave the girl a $20 and the the 37¢ in coins so I didn't get back a bunch of dollar bills and change back. She stared at the coins and didn't know what to do with it. I had to explain I get a $10 bill back.
Story 2
I paid an order with some bills and about $3 in quarters that were collecting in my car.
She stared at the coins and didn't know what to do with it and called over a manager to count it.
I had a job at a an Ace Hardware Store and most of the time I worked in the back in the little glass and window screen room. Nice and mellow. But sometimes they would put me on a register and at the day your till had to balance out to the penny. Sorry, I can't count - especially when there is a line of people staring at me. But thankfully all modern tills will tell you what the deal is as long as you tell it how much the customer tenders. Making the correct change was never a problem. But man those Marinites... each and every one is the center of the universe. But not being able to count quarters. I can't imagine that.
Story 1
My order was $10.37.
I gave the girl a $20 and the the 37¢ in coins so I didn't get back a bunch of dollar bills and change back. She stared at the coins and didn't know what to do with it. I had to explain I get a $10 bill back.
Story 2
I paid an order with some bills and about $3 in quarters that were collecting in my car.
She stared at the coins and didn't know what to do with it and called over a manager to count it.
This drives me nuts and not because kids, but the managers aren't good trainers. I actually like showing people how to make change.
