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Jack_Jefferson

Jack_Jefferson Avatar

Location: Columbus, OH
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 17, 2010 - 7:52am

 Danimal174 wrote:
 

Concerning Obama's so-called liberal agenda...I've never seen a public figure attacked more for things people think he's going to do than Obama. He wasn't even in office yet, and people were declaring him to be the most liberal President ever.  


I recall Clinton being the target of the same kind of paranoia.  I know of one person that even took action to prepare.  This guy was so convinced Clinton was going to run the economy down the drain that he didn't think he'd be able to afford a haircut.  So he ordered a floby (sp?) from TV.  True story. 
cc_rider

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Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 17, 2010 - 7:45am

 sirdroseph wrote:
Quite frankly other than maybe NPR and PBS; they ALL suck and it is because WE suck.  In mainstream news media for the most part, there is only ONE consistency; desire for ratings; they give the people what they want and it is the great unwashed that truly SUCK.{#Daisy}

For the record, yes I am a proud elitist.{#Cheers}
  Y'know, for a misanthrope, you're pretty likable in my book...


Danimal174

Danimal174 Avatar

Location: Upstate South Carolina
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 17, 2010 - 7:40am

 musik_knut wrote:


Pointless. Likeable or not, Mr. Obama, according to Gallup, now sits at a new low of approval: 40%.
Liking Mr. Obama is not going to help the unemployed nor make his decided Liberal agenda more palatable to most.
And, despite some wrongheaded notions, Glenn Beck is not FOX.

  

Concerning Obama's so-called liberal agenda...I've never seen a public figure attacked more for things people think he's going to do than Obama. He wasn't even in office yet, and people were declaring him to be the most liberal President ever. Concerning his approval rating - the problem is that many in this country have no patience for things to turn around. The economic conditions that were in place around the time that Obama took office were the worst they had been since the Great Depression; those things aren't going to change overnight. During the Great Depression, our forefathers hunkered down for the long fight, knowing things weren't going to get fixed overnight. Now, however, people today, angry that things weren't totally fixed in three months or so, look for someone to blame for the state of the economy right now, and many of those people choose Obama. Rightly or wrongly, it comes with the job. An approval rating for a President is really just an approval rating for the overall state of the union. If the country is in the toilet, the best President would still have a crappy approval rating. Also, it's not that surprising that his approval rating is declining, as this has happened in the first two years of every new President since Truman, with the exception of Kennedy, Bush Sr., and Bush Jr. (due greatly to 9/11). Also, out of all of those Presidents, Clinton was the only one who left with a higher approval rating than he started office with; everyone else saw their approval ratings decline during their presidency. (Info from the Wall Street Journal's site, here . I noticed, though, after putting this together, that graphs on other sites, like Wikipedia, look a little different, and show Reagan's approval rating also increased slightly, and that Bush Sr's ended up about the same as when he started office.)

Secondly, I don't get the statement that Glenn Beck is not FOX. I don't know of anyone who has said that Beck controls FOX (if they did, they'd be wrong); however, his show is broadcast on their network, and he is one of the stars of their network, so I don't get the need to distance him from the network that signs his checks. Beck's views are just a more extreme version of many of the messages pushed by Fox News overall and believed by many of their viewers. The stimulus package has hurt the country? Check. Obama wasn't born in the U.S. (or it's at least suspect)? Check. Obama is an extreme liberal looking to push this country towards socialism? Check. For more examples, see below. Generally speaking, these views are the same thing being pushed by Fox News and by the commentators on Fox News.

  • 91 percent believe the stimulus legislation lost jobs
  • 72 percent believe the health reform law will increase the deficit
  • 72 percent believe the economy is getting worse
  • 60 percent believe climate change is not occurring
  • 49 percent believe income taxes have gone up
  • 63 percent believe the stimulus legislation did not include any tax cuts
  • 56 percent believe Obama initiated the GM/Chrysler bailout
  • 38 percent believe that most Republicans opposed TARP
  • 63 percent believe Obama was not born in the U.S. (or that it is unclear)



islander

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Location: West coast somewhere
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 17, 2010 - 7:10am

 musik_knut wrote:


I would agree with you that many news orgs now blur, not always, but once in awhile, news and commentary. Was a time a reporter would inform his viewers that the following was a Commentary. Now, you might have to shake the news loose from opinion. Not always and almost never on breaking stories: they're too new to form opinions in that sense. And many reporters will speculate *a thin form of an opinion?* 'well, I think the guy with the gun was doing the shootings'...
I do get a chuckle out of FOX SUX...that their reporters are not pros, that the make up news that they yadda yadda yadda...it's such an old lament...shop worn and dog eared. It should be retired because it's now just a reflexive thought for some.

 
Sort of like the one about how the 'main stream media' is rabidly liberal?
nuggler

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Location: RU Sirius ?
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 17, 2010 - 5:12am

 sirdroseph wrote:


Quite frankly other than maybe NPR and PBS; they ALL suck and it is because WE suck.  In mainstream news media for the most part, there is only ONE consistency; desire for ratings; they give the people what they want and it is the great unwashed that truly SUCK.{#Daisy}

For the record, yes I am a proud elitist.{#Cheers}
 
. . . they channel public opinion . . .

sirdroseph

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Location: Not here, I tell you wat
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 17, 2010 - 5:07am

 musik_knut wrote:


I would agree with you that many news orgs now blur, not always, but once in awhile, news and commentary. Was a time a reporter would inform his viewers that the following was a Commentary. Now, you might have to shake the news loose from opinion. Not always and almost never on breaking stories: they're too new to form opinions in that sense. And many reporters will speculate *a thin form of an opinion?* 'well, I think the guy with the gun was doing the shootings'...
I do get a chuckle out of FOX SUX...that their reporters are not pros, that the make up news that they yadda yadda yadda...it's such an old lament...shop worn and dog eared. It should be retired because it's now just a reflexive thought for some.

 

Quite frankly other than maybe NPR and PBS; they ALL suck and it is because WE suck.  In mainstream news media for the most part, there is only ONE consistency; desire for ratings; they give the people what they want and it is the great unwashed that truly SUCK.{#Daisy}

For the record, yes I am a proud elitist.{#Cheers}

musik_knut

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Location: Third Stone From The Sun
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 16, 2010 - 7:47pm

 Jack_Jefferson wrote:


You make good, fair points, but you have to admit, Fox News and MSNBC are still very guilty of intentionally blurring the line between news reporting and commentary.  I'm sure educated people like yourself, me and most RPers can tell the difference and see through that.  As for the rest of the viewing public, I'm not so sure I have as much faith.

 

I would agree with you that many news orgs now blur, not always, but once in awhile, news and commentary. Was a time a reporter would inform his viewers that the following was a Commentary. Now, you might have to shake the news loose from opinion. Not always and almost never on breaking stories: they're too new to form opinions in that sense. And many reporters will speculate *a thin form of an opinion?* 'well, I think the guy with the gun was doing the shootings'...
I do get a chuckle out of FOX SUX...that their reporters are not pros, that the make up news that they yadda yadda yadda...it's such an old lament...shop worn and dog eared. It should be retired because it's now just a reflexive thought for some.


Jack_Jefferson

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Location: Columbus, OH
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 16, 2010 - 7:43pm

 musik_knut wrote:


Ummm. No. I think CNN, MSNBC and FOX, along with others, employ professional journalists who do not harm the profession. They seek answers to stories, they keep us informed and I appreciate their efforts, often under the most trying conditions. Where many folks, I think, confuse FOX is between FOX reporters and FOX commentators. They are not one and the same yet to many of my friends on the other side, FOX sucks and they make no distinction between FOX opinion pieces which do run middle—->conservative and FOX reporters who walk a street looking for the story or tag along in Afghanistan in harsh and deadly conditions.
As I stated, CNN and MSNBC handled the Chilean story different than did FOX. Each org made a decision. It seems FOX dumped scheduled programming while CNN and MSNBC stuck with their programming and provided updates on the Chilean story. If you were inclinded to follow each drum roll of that story, FOX was there. I watched it for a few and then it became more of the same with each rescued miner which was truly a great story and a lift to all of Chile and others. But 3 or so hours of coverage? Its like Super Bowl Sunday...you can only repeat yourself so many times before the kickoff...

 

You make good, fair points, but you have to admit, Fox News and MSNBC are still very guilty of intentionally blurring the line between news reporting and commentary.  I'm sure educated people like yourself, me and most RPers can tell the difference and see through that.  As for the rest of the viewing public, I'm not so sure I have as much faith.
musik_knut

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Location: Third Stone From The Sun
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 16, 2010 - 7:22pm

 Jack_Jefferson wrote:


So are you essentially conceding that Fox News has started or, at the very least, joined in on this race to the bottom when it comes to journalistic professionalism?

As for your second point, I don't doubt that the miners' story was newsworthy.  I think you and I just disagree as to how newsworthy it really was.  It was a great compelling human interest story.  I agree with you there.  Was it really necessary to block off two or three hours of waiting for each and every miner to be rescued?  I'm not sure.  I think a lot of people would have found something that had a more immediate impact on their lives more newsworthy.

 

Ummm. No. I think CNN, MSNBC and FOX, along with others, employ professional journalists who do not harm the profession. They seek answers to stories, they keep us informed and I appreciate their efforts, often under the most trying conditions. Where many folks, I think, confuse FOX is between FOX reporters and FOX commentators. They are not one and the same yet to many of my friends on the other side, FOX sucks and they make no distinction between FOX opinion pieces which do run middle—->conservative and FOX reporters who walk a street looking for the story or tag along in Afghanistan in harsh and deadly conditions.
As I stated, CNN and MSNBC handled the Chilean story different than did FOX. Each org made a decision. It seems FOX dumped scheduled programming while CNN and MSNBC stuck with their programming and provided updates on the Chilean story. If you were inclinded to follow each drum roll of that story, FOX was there. I watched it for a few and then it became more of the same with each rescued miner which was truly a great story and a lift to all of Chile and others. But 3 or so hours of coverage? Its like Super Bowl Sunday...you can only repeat yourself so many times before the kickoff...
Jack_Jefferson

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Location: Columbus, OH
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 16, 2010 - 7:08pm

 musik_knut wrote:


That was a time of greater civil demeanor, of a much less coarse Nation. And it was also a time when going snide could mean losing your job as a broadcaster or a talking head on the tube. Now, you can all but drop the F bomb in a comment and the only thing that interrupts some personal explosions on the air is a commercial break. Times change but not always for the better.
Covering the Chilean miners was simply a compelling human interest story and much of the world covered it. For reasons of their own, MSNBC and CNN gave updates while FOX fixated on the unfolding drama.

  

A snide comment about a republican or a positive comment about a democrat, homosexual or racial minority is still very much grounds for dismissal at Fox News.  So are you essentially conceding that Fox News has started or, at the very least, joined in on this race to the bottom when it comes to journalistic professionalism?

As for your second point, I don't doubt that the miners' story was newsworthy.  I think you and I just disagree as to how newsworthy it really was.  It was a great compelling human interest story.  I agree with you there.  Was it really necessary to block off two or three hours of waiting for each and every miner to be rescued?  I'm not sure.  I think a lot of people would have found something that had a more immediate impact on their lives more newsworthy.


musik_knut

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Location: Third Stone From The Sun
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 16, 2010 - 4:07pm

 RichardPrins wrote:
 musik_knut wrote:
... But not accurate because Mr. Obama is at the switch with 9.8% unemployment. Neither Mr. Clinton or Mr. Reagan had that sack of rocks hanging on them. That's where approval matters more than 'for he's a jolly good fellow' does.
 


If I recall correctly Reagan had to deal with some rather steep unemployment figures as well, which would be confirmed by the stats above (timing might suggest that Reagan increased those figures to an even higher level than is currently the case). Of course, unemployment figures aren't entirely uncontroversial/unambiguous either.

 
Ok. Thanks for the pertinent data.

R_P

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Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 16, 2010 - 4:04pm

 musik_knut wrote:
... But not accurate because Mr. Obama is at the switch with 9.8% unemployment. Neither Mr. Clinton or Mr. Reagan had that sack of rocks hanging on them. That's where approval matters more than 'for he's a jolly good fellow' does.
 


If I recall correctly Reagan had to deal with some rather steep unemployment figures as well, which would be confirmed by the stats above (timing might suggest that Reagan increased those figures to an even higher level than is currently the case). Of course, unemployment figures aren't entirely uncontroversial/unambiguous either.


musik_knut

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Location: Third Stone From The Sun
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 16, 2010 - 4:03pm

 hippiechick wrote:

I'm not
 

And if I am not? It must be Mr. Mustard, in the library, with the latest polls in his hands...
miamizsun

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Location: (3283.1 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 16, 2010 - 4:02pm

 RichardPrins wrote:
Study Confirms That Fox News Makes You Stupid
A new survey of American voters shows that Fox News viewers are significantly more misinformed than consumers of news from other sources.

 
technically i think that makes them ignorant {#Wink}

the vast majority of (mis)information heaped on the public from practically all mainstream media is schlock.

imho, there's very few programs worthy of gleaning.

regards
hippiechick

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Location: topsy turvy land
Gender: Female


Posted: Dec 16, 2010 - 4:00pm

 Monkeysdad wrote:


MK is confused? Or you're confused?

 
I'm not

musik_knut

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Location: Third Stone From The Sun
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 16, 2010 - 4:00pm

 hippiechick wrote:
So, MK, basically your take is, don't confuse you with the fact, right?

 

No hc. And I resent that. I did not spend 35 years as a scientist without a frigging care for fact and the discovery of fact.
What I said regarding Mr. Obama's fortunes is true...he continues a downward trend...not precipitous but discernibly downward. What would not only be refreshing but shocking would be for you to ever see the realities surrounding Mr. Obama and how the public views him and his policies. In a nutshell, not all peaches and cream as you might think *and often imply*
Monkeysdad

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Location: Simi Valley, CA
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 16, 2010 - 3:57pm

 hippiechick wrote:
So, MK, basically your take is, don't confuse you with the fact, right?

 

MK is confused? Or you're confused?
KurtfromLaQuinta

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Location: Really deep in the heart of South California
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 16, 2010 - 3:56pm

 hippiechick wrote:

You are incorrect. From Real Clear Politics:
RCP Average12/1 - 12/1545.048.0-3.0
FOX News12/14 - 12/15900 RV4051-11
Gallup12/13 - 12/151547 A4546-1
Rasmussen Reports12/13 - 12/151500 LV4753-6
NBC News/Wall St. Jrnl12/9 - 12/131000 A4548-3
ABC News/Wash Post12/9 - 12/121001 A4947+2
McClatchy/Marist12/2 - 12/8873 RV4250-8
Bloomberg12/4 - 12/71000 A4748-1
Reuters/Ipsos12/2 - 12/51028 A4546-1
Pew Research12/1 - 12/51500 A4543+2

 
This is something to brag about? {#Rolleyes}

hippiechick

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Location: topsy turvy land
Gender: Female


Posted: Dec 16, 2010 - 3:55pm

So, MK, basically your take is, don't confuse you with the fact, right?
musik_knut

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Location: Third Stone From The Sun
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 16, 2010 - 3:53pm

 RichardPrins wrote:

Possibly as pointless as approval rates? (Gallup:)



Obviously Glenn Beck isn't Fox, he's merely an employee hosting a show with political commentary on the Fox News Channel.
 

Likeability in a pol, particularly a President, has less impact than approval. The more  President Obama sinks, the more emboldened his detractors and now at this point, even some of his allies. A lot of folks like to compare Mr. Obama today and the same points in time for Mr. Clinton and Mr. Reagan. Fair. But not accurate because Mr. Obama is at the switch with 9.8% unemployment. Neither Mr. Clinton or Mr. Reagan had that sack of rocks hanging on them. That's where approval matters more than 'for he's a jolly good fellow' does.
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