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Index » Regional/Local » Europe » Ukraine Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4 ... 67, 68, 69  Next
Post to this Topic
R_P

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Posted: May 12, 2022 - 10:27am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
well, there are worse causes to hitch your wagon to.

Right. Relative privation. Hitch away.

NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: May 12, 2022 - 10:05am

 R_P wrote:
 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
Are you referring to the Wilson Center?

Not really, though obviously related.
 
well, there are worse causes to hitch your wagon to.
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: May 12, 2022 - 9:42am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
Are you referring to the Wilson Center?

Not really, though obviously related.

dischuckin

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Location: dry shippys wa
Gender: Male


Posted: May 12, 2022 - 9:41am

https://www.npr.org/2022/05/11...
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: May 12, 2022 - 9:29am

 R_P wrote:
 black321 wrote:
Sure, that's Plan A for most of us (...)

And here I thought it was all about good little Wilsonians protecting the fledgling Ukraine.
 
Are you referring to the Wilson Center?
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: May 12, 2022 - 8:51am

 black321 wrote:
Sure, that's Plan A for most of us (...)

And here I thought it was all about good little Wilsonians protecting the fledgling Ukraine.
black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: May 12, 2022 - 8:44am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

take a slap to the face to return a knee to the groin.. 
{#Lol}


Actually the whole thing is tragic in a peculiarly Russian kind of way. Given that Russia has virtually no chance of taking any positive gains out of this and that NATO has only got stronger and more united, all of which was plain to see even before the invasion, what happens next?  A long war of attrition will kill the Russian economy slowly but surely. How long will the current regime manage to keep selling the "we are under threat" line when the standard of living for normal Russians tanks, as it surely will sooner or later.

Or will they resort to nukes in an ultimate act of barbarity, as that is the only option for them to die with their victim narrative still intact? Not wanting to be too alarmist or anything, but the probability is most certainly much higher than it was before the invasion. Or will cooler heads in Russia prevail? This would mean Putin leaves office, takes the blame with him and allows  some kind of reset to occur? I really don't see too many other options than these two scenarios. Anyone got a better idea?

Sure, that's Plan A for most of us, but who, within Russia, is up for the job to push him out? Who will fill the power vacuum?

NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: May 12, 2022 - 8:10am

 R_P wrote:
 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
Not wanting to be too alarmist or anything, but (...)


 
yeah, hilarious. so what's your idea?  
R_P

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Posted: May 12, 2022 - 8:01am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
Not wanting to be too alarmist or anything, but (...)



NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: May 12, 2022 - 7:13am

 Lazy8 wrote:
 westslope wrote:
Russia’s economy is back on its feet
There's a reason for its resilience

Sort of. By which I mean no.
 
take a slap to the face to return a knee to the groin.. {#Lol}

Actually the whole thing is tragic in a peculiarly Russian kind of way. Given that Russia has virtually no chance of taking any positive gains out of this and that NATO has only got stronger and more united, all of which was plain to see even before the invasion, what happens next?  A long war of attrition will kill the Russian economy slowly but surely. How long will the current regime manage to keep selling the "we are under threat" line when the standard of living for normal Russians tanks, as it surely will sooner or later.

Or will they resort to nukes in an ultimate act of barbarity, as that is the only option for them to die with their victim narrative still intact? Not wanting to be too alarmist or anything, but the probability is most certainly much higher than it was before the invasion. Or will cooler heads in Russia prevail? This would mean Putin leaves office, takes the blame with him and allows  some kind of reset to occur? I really don't see too many other options than these two scenarios. Anyone got a better idea?
Lazy8

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Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: May 11, 2022 - 9:16pm

 westslope wrote:
Russia’s economy is back on its feet
There's a reason for its resilience

Sort of.

By which I mean no.


kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: May 10, 2022 - 7:16pm

 westslope wrote:


Well, well.  That is interesting.

kcar, you really have no idea how wrong that is, do you?



The US public was quite isolationist before Pearl Harbor and not even willing to help Great Britain fend off Nazi Germany. FDR and White House advisors had to invent the term Lend-lease in order to get Congress to approve the shipment of war materiel to Britain. The US in December '41 made no cost-benefit calculation regarding any vague idea of becoming a post-war superpower or even a major exporter to a victorious Europe.

But please: why not flesh out your disagreement with my statement and so shed more light on your Bizarroworld notions?

westslope

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Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: May 10, 2022 - 12:50pm

 kcar wrote:


"I want you to perform a rational cost-benefit analysis as should be standard procedure in foreign policy decisions."

If the US had used such analysis during WWII, it never would have been involved in D-Day.


Well, well.  That is interesting.

kcar, you really have no idea how wrong that is, do you?

VV

VV Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: May 10, 2022 - 10:22am

 kcar wrote:


"So how many Ukrainian lives are you willing to sacrifice in order for Ukraine to gain a better negotiating position?"

The Ukrainians are fighting for their lives. They are not American puppets. The US and the EU do not control Ukraine.

This apparently is hard for you to understand, but the US is not going to be the prime mover in every region of the world. The US never had sufficient military, economic, or financial power to prevent the Russian invasion of Ukraine. 

Russia's desire to occupy and control Ukraine or Ukrainian territory long predates the existence of NATO and the USA. Russia might fear NATO but under Putin it also wants to rebuild the Russian empire and strengthen the Russian economy.
Stop trying to blame the US and the EU for Russian imperialism.



kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: May 10, 2022 - 10:15am

 westslope wrote:

Thank you for the personal insult VV.  It looks good on you.

So how many Ukrainian lives are you willing to sacrifice in order for Ukraine to gain a better negotiating position? 



"So how many Ukrainian lives are you willing to sacrifice in order for Ukraine to gain a better negotiating position?"

The Ukrainians are fighting for their lives. They are not American puppets. The US and the EU do not control Ukraine.

This apparently is hard for you to understand, but the US is not going to be the prime mover in every region of the world. The US never had sufficient military, economic, or financial power to prevent the Russian invasion of Ukraine. 

Russia's desire to occupy and control Ukraine or Ukrainian territory long predates the existence of NATO and the USA. Russia might fear NATO but under Putin it also wants to rebuild the Russian empire and strengthen the Russian economy.
Stop trying to blame the US and the EU for Russian imperialism.
black321

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Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: May 10, 2022 - 10:04am

 kcar wrote:


"I want you to perform a rational cost-benefit analysis as should be standard procedure in foreign policy decisions."


Unless there is lots of looting...these always come out negative. 
kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: May 10, 2022 - 9:56am

 westslope wrote:

No.  I just want you folks to behave like adults who actually regard life as valuable.   I want you to perform a rational cost-benefit analysis as should be standard procedure in foreign policy decisions.  Not just others such as the Ukrainians and Russians but also Americans.  We will get to the cost Americans will bear in a moment. 

Otherwise, I am simply gauging the willingness on the part of participants here to prolong the war as much as possible.  


"I want you to perform a rational cost-benefit analysis as should be standard procedure in foreign policy decisions."

If the US had used such analysis during WWII, it never would have been involved in D-Day.
VV

VV Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: May 10, 2022 - 9:13am

 westslope wrote:

So what about the costs the US economy and people will bear?

The USA appears to be headed to recession.  

Worse yet, the American poor on fixed incomes and many low-income workers are getting hammered and will continued be hammered as clearly the USA and other rich western countries are promising every larger flows of weapons and funding.


FYI, your post didn't include a link to the cost benefit analysis you promised. Or is this is the extent of your analysis Warren Buffett? 
VV

VV Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: May 10, 2022 - 9:04am

 westslope wrote:

Listen you lying, terrorist American creepy human being.   Why are you acting like a Trump supporter?  You are evil.  Just accept it. 

I opposed NATO moving into the Warsaw Pact countries.  I supported patiently waiting and doing the best to co-opt Russia into the western fold.   In this scenario there would be no blood shed.  






Trump supporter?
 
  
Wow, that's the unkindest cut of all...  What am I lying about and what makes me a terrorist? 

 
Let's be clear NATO didn't move into anything. Free sovereign nations are free to determine who they wish to align with. These countries are no longer under the collective oppressive thumb of Russia. The Warsaw pact is no more. The Baltic states determined that they no longer wanted to be held back by Russia and decided they wanted throw their lot in with NATO. No one put a gun to their collective "heads". These were free nations that are free to make that self-determination. Putin can try and twist history to see otherwise but a fact is a fact. 
 
Just wondering what your thoughts are regarding Finland & Sweden should they apply for NATO membership? This should not be allowed? Is NATO forcing them to do this? Would Russia be justified in initiating military actions against these countries should this happen? Would love to hear your opinions regarding this.





westslope

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Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: May 10, 2022 - 8:57am

So what about the costs the US economy and people will bear?

The USA appears to be headed to recession.  

Worse yet, the American poor on fixed incomes and many low-income workers are getting hammered and will continued be hammered as clearly the USA and other rich western countries are promising every larger flows of weapons and funding.
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