Reagan immediately cancelled his vacation to return to Washington to deal with this head on.
Yeah maybe if one of our current enemies shot down a planeload of people who got on that plane in New York City, Obama would have a reason to stick his nose in. But, as tragic as it is, it doesn't involve us, and our president is doing a decent job of not spouting a bunch of bellicose bluster the only outcome of which would be to "put up or shut up" over a skirmish we want no part of. But I don't know, maybe you do wish for a hot war with Russia. God knows we have a huge healthy military with nothing better to do right now, and we're swimming in budget surpluses that will only go to waste on health care and people and crap if we don't fight fight fight.
Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth
Posted:
Jul 18, 2014 - 1:18pm
kurtster wrote:
This is the standard I use for judging Obama ...
I also know that nearly everyone who has participated in this thread the past couple of days holds Reagan in very low regard.
Reagan immediately cancelled his vacation to return to Washington to deal with this head on. If you actually watch it, pay attention to the 9:50 mark and while watching, remember how primitive our technology was 21 years ago, yet so much was known immediately regarding the incident and was shared as soon as it became available. This is a clear and stark contrast to Obama ...
This is real leadership.
Quickly,from the world of logic and reason: The Korean airliner was shot down on September 1, 1983. Reagan's addresss to the nation, the video of which you have supplied here, was made September 5, 1983. The facts that emerged were that the Soviets shot down the Korean airliner because it had entered Soviet air space. In fact, in the video, Reagan plays parts of the intercepted communications that served as evidence that the Soviets had intentionally fired the missile without knowing — or perhaps even knowing — that it was a commercial airliner.
Compare and contrast. As you yourself have said in this thread today, at this point, this appears to be an accident that occurred in a war zone. The best information right now is that this probably was a missile fired by Russian-backed rebels in Ukraine who thought they were firing on a Ukraine military plane, not a commercial airliner.
As information is gathered,perhaps the facts will show something different.
You are so clueless. You accept mediocrity and incompetence as the new normal.
This is an example of what a leader does. Its not about the specific actions related to the event of KAL 007. Its about taking actions, not barely acknowledging an atrocity, which the downing of the Malaysian airliner is. And it is an atrocity regardless if it was an accident or deliberate.
Location: Half inch above the K/T boundary Gender:
Posted:
Jul 18, 2014 - 1:15pm
kurtster wrote:
You are so clueless.
This is an example of what a leader does. Its not about the specific actions related to the event of KAL 007. Its about taking actions, not barely acknowledging an atrocity, which the downing of the Malaysian airliner is. And it is an atrocity regardless if it was an accident or deliberate.
Like I said earlier, irony is most enjoyed on a Friday. In short, Reagan had days to prepare for the speech and considerable time (days) to consider statements and actions to be taken.
You, however, are criticizing Obama for smth that happened a very short time before he made an address on another topic. We are now seeing, if we (you) choose to observe, what Obama and our allies will do with the same time to consider and coordinate actions.
So you want him to take action with our allies to impact Russia? Like increasing the sanctions already in place and encouraging our allies to do the same?
Maybe you want him to say something specifically implicating Russia? like: "without sophisticated equipment and sophisticated training, and that is coming from Russia." Okay, done.
What else would you like? Maybe he could refer to Michelle as "Nancy"?
You are so clueless. You accept mediocrity and incompetence as the new normal.
This is an example of what a leader does. Its not about the specific actions related to the event of KAL 007. Its about taking actions, not barely acknowledging an atrocity, which the downing of the Malaysian airliner is. And it is an atrocity regardless if it was an accident or deliberate.
I also know that nearly everyone who has participated in this thread the past couple of days holds Reagan in very low regard.
Reagan immediately cancelled his vacation to return to Washington to deal with this head on. If you actually watch it, pay attention to the 9:50 mark and while watching, remember how primitive our technology was 21 years ago, yet so much was known immediately regarding the incident and was shared as soon as it became available. This is a clear and stark contrast to Obama ...
This is real leadership.
So you want him to take action with our allies to impact Russia? Like increasing the sanctions already in place and encouraging our allies to do the same?
Maybe you want him to say something specifically implicating Russia? like: "without sophisticated equipment and sophisticated training, and that is coming from Russia." Okay, done.
What else would you like? Maybe he could refer to Michelle as "Nancy"?
Location: Half inch above the K/T boundary Gender:
Posted:
Jul 18, 2014 - 12:55pm
sirdroseph wrote:
I am confused, you like a bill that is motivating parents to send their kids north at great peril or are you saying that this bill does not do that as the Democrats claim??
The "immigration" bill to which I refer is basically good legislation, imo, that has led to unintended consequences. The legislation must be modified, certainly.
As I understand it, there is a complex of reasons why this surge in child illegal entry has occurred. I leave that analysis to another time and thread. I simply reject the Kurster stated claim that it is an "invasion" and an "Obama plot" or "Obama allowed", as if he alone is responsible. That is far too simplistic.
I also know that nearly everyone who has participated in this thread the past couple of days holds Reagan in very low regard.
Reagan immediately cancelled his vacation to return to Washington to deal with this head on. If you actually watch it, pay attention to the 9:50 mark and while watching, remember how primitive our technology was 21 years ago, yet so much was known immediately regarding the incident and was shared as soon as it became available. This is a clear and stark contrast to Obama ...
First, you are the one who constantly brings Obama in at every opportunity.
Keep your crises straight. You keep refering to Obama allowing an invasion, implying that the great influx of kids into Texas is an Obama enabled phenomenon. In fact, it is a W. sponsored bill (which I happen to like) that is motivating parents to send their kids north...at great peril. Think for a moment how bad the situation must be in Central America, especially Honduras, to motivate parents, who dearly love their kids btw, to send them to us...alone. We haven't been, and should not, simply immediately deport them, or even prevent them from arriving. We need to work at the source.
These are children! While it cannot be allowed to go on indefinitely, we should shelter, protect and aid the kids who have already arrived. Obama plot? Puh-leeze.
I am confused, you like a bill that is motivating parents to send their kids north at great peril or are you saying that this bill does not do that as the Democrats claim??
Location: Half inch above the K/T boundary Gender:
Posted:
Jul 18, 2014 - 11:59am
kurtster wrote:
I'm far from asking for any kind of military confrontation.
This is not our fight. Its a European problem. That does not mean I am trying to minimize the importance of the act of shooting down a civilian aircraft. On the other hand the plane was flying through a war zone, so shit does happen and in war, no one is innocent. To think otherwise is to misunderstand what war really is.
But geez Louise, Obama can do more than offer an insincere claim of concern over the matter.
His remark came off as a contractual obligation, rather than having any real meaning.
But here we are in the weeds talking about Obama rather than the event itself.
First, you are the one who constantly brings Obama in at every opportunity.
Keep your crises straight. You keep refering to Obama allowing an invasion, implying that the great influx of kids into Texas is an Obama enabled phenomenon. In fact, it is a W. sponsored bill (which I happen to like) that is motivating parents to send their kids north...at great peril. Think for a moment how bad the situation must be in Central America, especially Honduras, to motivate parents, who dearly love their kids btw, to send them to us...alone. We haven't been, and should not, simply immediately deport them, or even prevent them from arriving. We need to work at the source.
These are children! While it cannot be allowed to go on indefinitely, we should shelter, protect and aid the kids who have already arrived. Obama plot? Puh-leeze.
You're nucking futz. To even go there is to assume that the plane was identified as a commercial airliner, the passenger manifest known, and deliberately shot down as opposed to an accident resulting from misidentification.
Really, Richard. You apparently will do anything to exploit a real crisis or tragedy for your own ends.
And,— stating it again — you are the one who brought Obama up in your very first post at a time when the facts were not even close to being known. You make it sound in this and your prior post in response to me that Obama should have been announcing some kind of action immediately after the plane went down.
Yeah he seems to think Obama should have had a fully wargamed plan and speech in place, ready for this totally predictable event.
You're nucking futz. To even go there is to assume that the plane was identified as a commercial airliner, the passenger manifest known, and deliberately shot down as opposed to an accident resulting from misidentification.
Really, Richard. You apparently will do anything to exploit a real crisis or tragedy for your own ends.
SRSLY?! This is probably your lamest attempt at trolling to date...
Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth
Posted:
Jul 18, 2014 - 11:43am
kurtster wrote:
Yes, a big slap at Obama, and an indictment regarding his handling of foreign affairs to date.
You seem to be blinded by your particular ideology on this matter. Obama is allowing an invasion on our southern border. He does not deserve respect anymore. His office does, but he has forsaken any obligation towards any personal respect, imo.
I don't live in your politically correct world, nor wish to.
The emperor has no clothes, get over it.
Politically correct world? I'm trying to get you into the world of logic and reason.
Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth
Posted:
Jul 18, 2014 - 11:40am
kurtster wrote:
I'm far from asking for any kind of military confrontation.
This is not our fight. Its a European problem. That does not mean I am trying to minimize the importance of the act of shooting down a civilian aircraft. On the other hand the plane was flying through a war zone, so shit does happen and in war, no one is innocent. To think otherwise is to misunderstand what war really is.
But geez Louise, Obama can do more than offer an insincere claim of concern over the matter.
His remark came off as a contractual obligation, rather than having any real meaning.
But here we are in the weeds talking about Obama rather than the event itself.
And,— stating it again — you are the one who brought Obama up in your very first post at a time when the facts were not even close to being known. You make it sound in this and your prior post in response to me that Obama should have been announcing some kind of action immediately after the plane went down.
Delegates at a pre-conference in Sydney were told on Friday morning that about 100 medical researchers, health workers and activists were on the plane that went down near the Russia-Ukraine border, including former International AIDS Society president Joep Lange. (...)
Which is not to suggest that their lives were any more valuable than the others, but it adds another dimension to the overall tragedy...
You're nucking futz. To even go there is to assume that the plane was identified as a commercial airliner, the passenger manifest known, and deliberately shot down as opposed to an accident resulting from misidentification.
Really, Richard. You apparently will do anything to exploit a real crisis or tragedy for your own ends.
I love irony on a Friday afternoon. Yes, let's show those damn kids how really tough we are!
I'm far from asking for any kind of military confrontation.
This is not our fight. Its a European problem. That does not mean I am trying to minimize the importance of the act of shooting down a civilian aircraft. On the other hand the plane was flying through a war zone, so shit does happen and in war, no one is innocent. To think otherwise is to misunderstand what war really is.
But geez Louise, Obama can do more than offer an insincere claim of concern over the matter.
His remark came off as a contractual obligation, rather than having any real meaning.
But here we are in the weeds talking about Obama rather than the event itself.
Delegates at a pre-conference in Sydney were told on Friday morning that about 100 medical researchers, health workers and activists were on the plane that went down near the Russia-Ukraine border, including former International AIDS Society president Joep Lange. (...)
Lets see....Russians hate gay people, AIDS is a gay disease... I think we got ourselves a conspiracy, folks!
Delegates at a pre-conference in Sydney were told on Friday morning that about 100 medical researchers, health workers and activists were on the plane that went down near the Russia-Ukraine border, including former International AIDS Society president Joep Lange. (...)
Which is not to suggest that their lives were any more valuable than the others, but it adds another dimension to the overall tragedy...
Location: Half inch above the K/T boundary Gender:
Posted:
Jul 18, 2014 - 11:10am
kurtster wrote:
Yes, a big slap at Obama, and an indictment regarding his handling of foreign affairs to date.
You seem to be blinded by your particular ideology on this matter. Obama is allowing an invasion on our southern border. He does not deserve respect anymore. His office does, but he has forsaken any obligation towards any personal respect, imo.
I don't live in your politically correct world, nor wish to.
The emperor has no clothes, get over it.
I love irony on a Friday afternoon. Yes, let's show those damn kids how really tough we are!
SRSLY?!