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Index » Regional/Local » Europe » Ukraine Page: Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 69, 70, 71 ... 110, 111, 112  Next
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VV

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Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 11, 2022 - 8:05am

The more that this drags on and is more that I believe Putin has pushed "all in" and there will be no offramps or a brokered diplomatic solution to a withdrawal of those troops. I hold no hope for any diplomatic talks resulting in any breakthroughs or lasting cease-fires. 
 
In my opinion the only hope for an end to this (and to try and stop additional suffering) is a mass uprising of the Russian populace leading to an overthrow of the government (highly unlikely) or an internally organized coup of those residing close to or within Putin's inner circle. I'm betting the latter scenario is probably more feasible and is the one that I (along with what I assume to be many) are probably hoping for.

Even if Putin gets his "win" in Ukraine... as long as Putin is in power... I don't see the raft of sanctions which are crushing the Russian economy being lifted. So if I am a high-ranking official in Russia considering the possibility of a coup, I have to understand that the first step to get Russia back on track is to remove Putin and begin the process of trying to rebuild the Russian economy and rebuild all of the fractured relationships with other nations... most immediately Ukraine.  Ultimately there is no rebuild of Russia with Putin still in charge.

Maybe I'm just naïve.... I've been called worse.



NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Mar 10, 2022 - 11:52pm

 Lazy8 wrote:
 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
.. which also explains why autocratic regimes are terribly bad for global progress.  Maybe the name Putin will enter the dictionary as a verb meaning to fuck up a functioning political system in an effort to revert to outdated and broken structures and thought patterns. What Ned Ludd* is for technological progress, Vladimir Putin is for political progress. 
He's such a perfect example of getting it all wrong and causing enormous harm to millions of people because his power is unchecked by any domestic controls and balances.  *Who, in contrast to Putin, was apparently entirely fictional.

While I share the contempt for Putin I want to correct what looks like a misconception: that if Putin were out of the picture Russia would be a peaceful, prosperous nation. Putin is the strongman who emerged from the political and cultural swamp that is post-soviet Russia. If he were gone tomorrow that swamp would still be there, ready to breed another monster like him. Maybe we're lucky enough that he was unique, that the cultural and historical grievances that bred him were looking for exactly his personality and no other...but I wouldn't bet the safety of the world on that.
 
I think that post-Soviet swamp might not be quite as fetid as you imagine.
It takes time, but cultures can develop/adapt surprisingly quickly.
Russia could still take either path IMO. Downwards into local mafia governed economies or EU-style rules based economies. I don't know enough about Russia to say. 
Looks like all the closet fascists here are counting on the former.
Just wish they would go and live there already. 
Lazy8

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Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 10, 2022 - 11:29pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
.. which also explains why autocratic regimes are terribly bad for global progress. 

Maybe the name Putin will enter the dictionary as a verb meaning to fuck up a functioning political system in an effort to revert to outdated and broken structures and thought patterns. What Ned Ludd* is for technological progress, Vladimir Putin is for political progress. 
He's such a perfect example of getting it all wrong and causing enormous harm to millions of people because his power is unchecked by any domestic controls and balances. 

*Who, in contrast to Putin, was apparently entirely fictional.

While I share the contempt for Putin I want to correct what looks like a misconception: that if Putin were out of the picture Russia would be a peaceful, prosperous nation.

Putin is the strongman who emerged from the political and cultural swamp that is post-soviet Russia. If he were gone tomorrow that swamp would still be there, ready to breed another monster like him.

Maybe we're lucky enough that he was unique, that the cultural and historical grievances that bred him were looking for exactly his personality and no other...but I wouldn't bet the safety of the world on that.
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 10, 2022 - 7:42pm

 Lazy8 wrote:



.. which also explains why autocratic regimes are terribly bad for global progress. 

Maybe the name Putin will enter the dictionary as a verb meaning to fuck up a functioning political system in an effort to revert to outdated and broken structures and thought patterns. What Ned Ludd* is for technological progress, Vladimir Putin is for political progress. 
He's such a perfect example of getting it all wrong and causing enormous harm to millions of people because his power is unchecked by any domestic controls and balances. 

*Who, in contrast to Putin, was apparently entirely fictional.

Lazy8

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Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 10, 2022 - 3:36pm


whatshisname

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Location: West OZ
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Posted: Mar 10, 2022 - 2:57pm

Knock, knock....who's there ?



NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Mar 10, 2022 - 10:55am

 Lazy8 wrote:
I'd like to introduce you all to some historians whose work I enjoy (and support): Spartacus Olsen and Indy Neidel. They run a historical documentary operation called Timeghost, both as a YouTube channel and a stand-alone operation. Their day-by-day documentary approach to the recent history of Europe is timely and informative, and I recommend it highly. Here they counter a historical justification of the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
 
nice. the best bit being, every state is a made-up state. 

only recently learned this little titbit about Crimea:

Eventually, the Crimean Tatars became a minority in Crimea; in 1783, they comprised 98 per cent of the population,[19] but by 1897, this was down to 34.1 per cent.[20] While Crimean Tatars were emigrating, the Russian government encouraged Russification of the peninsula, populating it with RussiansUkrainians, and other Slavic ethnic groups; this Russification continued during the Soviet era.[20]
Animal-Farm

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Posted: Mar 10, 2022 - 10:24am

US official: Russian invasion of Ukraine risks release of dangerous pathogens Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists.

The Russian invasion of Ukraine may put at risk a network of US-linked labs in Ukraine that work with dangerous pathogens, said Robert Pope, the director of the Cooperative Threat Reduction Program, a 30-year-old Defense Department program that has helped secure the former Soviet Union’s weapons of mass destruction and redirect former bioweapons facilities and scientists toward peaceful endeavors.

Russia’s ‘warning’ of Ukraine’s biological weapons sounds just like Syria Guardian. Oh noes.


Animal-Farm

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Posted: Mar 10, 2022 - 9:09am

No Ceasefire Progress: All The Latest News And Developments From The Ukraine War - March 10

teaser image

"The broad narrative he conveyed to me is that they will continue their aggression until Ukraine meets their demands, and the least of these demands is surrender."

THU MAR 10, AT 10:22 AM
Lazy8

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Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 10, 2022 - 7:13am

I'd like to introduce you all to some historians whose work I enjoy (and support): Spartacus Olsen and Indy Neidel. They run a historical documentary operation called Timeghost, both as a YouTube channel and a stand-alone operation. Their day-by-day documentary approach to the recent history of Europe is timely and informative, and I recommend it highly.

Here they counter a historical justification of the Russian invasion of Ukraine.


R_P

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Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 9, 2022 - 11:15pm

The CIA has backed Ukrainian insurgents before. Let’s learn from those mistakes
Feb. 25, 2022
When History Begins – Russia, Ukraine & the US
NYET MEANS NYET
Animal-Farm

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Posted: Mar 9, 2022 - 5:22pm

 Red_Dragon wrote:
Yeah, FUCK Putin. He initiated a war on another sovereign state and that war has included the deliberate targeting of civilians. On the other hand, the human nature of tribal, nationalistic bullshit continues to create circumstances wherein such insanity can be justified ("sovereign states"). As long as there are borders, there will be wars. Until humanity fully realizes that we are a single species living on a finite planet, this sort of obscene behavior will continue.



I agree

now can we keep that outrage for the situations in Yemen and Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan?

otherwise we have no basic principals.


R_P

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Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 9, 2022 - 5:17pm

As people and institutions watch the war get spun into content in real
time, they react to it as social media has trained them to: through
arguably superficial displays of solidarity, entreaties to practice self-care,
the reflexive lionization of political figures, Twitter clapbacks (in
one case, between the Russian and German Embassies in South Africa),
and a desperate desire to be — or at least appear — useful.

The cancellation of Russian cultural figures and products can be
understood as a successive step in this familiar choreography. “This is
the globalization of moral outrage,” the Times columnist Thomas Friedman
writes. “It goes from watching a short video online showing Russian soldiers
firing on a Ukrainian nuclear energy facility to an employee posting
that video on his or her Facebook page to a group of employees emailing
their bosses or going on Slack — not to ask their C.E.O.s to do
something but to tell them they have to do something or they will lose workers
and customers.”
Red_Dragon

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Location: Dumbf*ckistan


Posted: Mar 9, 2022 - 4:43pm

 miamizsun wrote:
Yeah, FUCK Putin. He initiated a war on another sovereign state and that war has included the deliberate targeting of civilians. On the other hand, the human nature of tribal, nationalistic bullshit continues to create circumstances wherein such insanity can be justified ("sovereign states"). As long as there are borders, there will be wars. Until humanity fully realizes that we are a single species living on a finite planet, this sort of obscene behavior will continue.

miamizsun

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Location: (3283.1 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 9, 2022 - 2:15pm


R_P

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Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 9, 2022 - 1:18pm

 steeler wrote:
Yes, but the first order of business would be stopping the warfare.

Sure, for those who have the power to do that. Unfortunately we're likely to see continued escalation.

More weapons, more intelligence support (for targeting), etc.
steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Mar 9, 2022 - 1:14pm

 R_P wrote:

That's neither contested nor justifiable. But it behooves us to figure out how we got to this point.

Yes, but the first order of business would be stopping the warfare. 

kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Mar 9, 2022 - 1:11pm

Kurtster wrote:

So Climate Change is a bigger existential threat than this overt imperialism ?


Yes, Kurt. Climate change could wipe all human beings off the face of the earth.

Not that hard to understand. Unless you just don't want to.
R_P

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Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 9, 2022 - 1:05pm

 steeler wrote:

Hmmmm . . .

Which country invaded which country?
In all the commotion, perhaps that has been pushed to the bottom of the rhetorical totem pole.

This thread seems more a case of “you can’t tell the players without a program.”


That's neither contested nor justifiable. But it behooves us to figure out how we got to this point.
Animal-Farm

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Posted: Mar 9, 2022 - 12:55pm

 steeler wrote:

Hmmmm . . .

Which country invaded which country? In all the commotion, perhaps that has been pushed to the bottom of the rhetorical totem pole.

This thread seems more a case of “you can’t tell the players without a program.”






I think we are learning how life was behind the Soviet Union in the 1950's and 60's, coups and propaganda and fake news.



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