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haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 12, 2022 - 6:18pm

 black321 wrote:


Really? Clearly biased.
The ceasefire was violated within weeks if not days by both sides...arguably more violations among the separatists, including Russian military..and all the while putins only aim was to install Russian puppets. 

regardless,  I think Ukraine should give up the area for the sake of peace 


P.s. as if  I should know if you thought the invasion was justified...was actually trying to provide you an avenue to provide a reasonable explanation.

Yeah, like not contesting Crimea gave them a lasting peace. /sarcasm

black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 12, 2022 - 5:26pm

 rhahl wrote:

Ukraine refused to implement the Minsk Agreements, that it signed and the UN security council endorsed, as he said in both formats. Instead Ukraine shelled the Donbas and prepared to invade, as he said in both formats. My mother taught me that internet trolls are people who ask questions which they should know the answers to already.


Really? Clearly biased.
The ceasefire was violated within weeks if not days by both sides...arguably more violations among the separatists, including Russian military..and all the while putins only aim was to install Russian puppets. 

regardless,  I think Ukraine should give up the area for the sake of peace 

P.s. as if  I should know if you thought the invasion was justified...was actually trying to provide you an avenue to provide a reasonable explanation.
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar

Location: Gilead


Posted: Apr 12, 2022 - 4:31pm

 rhahl wrote:

Ukraine refused to implement the Minsk Agreements, that it signed and the UN security council endorsed, as he said in both formats. Instead Ukraine shelled the Donbas and prepared to invade, as he said in both formats. My mother taught me that internet trolls are people who ask questions which they should know the answers to already.


So you are a Putin supporter, then. Get stuffed.
rhahl

rhahl Avatar



Posted: Apr 12, 2022 - 3:12pm

 black321 wrote:
 rhahl wrote:

Here is the same information in spoken word form. How funny is this?
Not an answer to either of my questions... 
I'm no scholar...but WTF is he talking about? He's blaming Ukraine's attack on the Donbas region, which has been a conflict area since 2014, as justification for Russia invading? 
Ukraine fighting within its own country a self declared "republic" only recognized by Russia and Syria...and somehow the Russian invasion of this area, let alone Ukraine is justified? VV was right. 
 
Ukraine refused to implement the Minsk Agreements, that it signed and the UN security council endorsed, as he said in both formats. Instead Ukraine shelled the Donbas and prepared to invade, as he said in both formats. My mother taught me that internet trolls are people who ask questions which they should know the answers to already.
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar

Location: Gilead


Posted: Apr 12, 2022 - 2:51pm

Ukraine on Tuesday said it arrested the Kremlin's most prominent ally in the country as Russian President Vladimir Putin gave his strongest signal yet the war will grind on, warning peace talks were at a dead end. In February, Ukraine said Viktor Medvedchuk, the leader of the Opposition Platform - For Life party, escaped from house arrest after the authorities opened a treason case against him. The pro-Russian figure, who says Putin is godfather to his daughter, has denied wrongdoing. On Tuesday a spokesperson was not immediately available for comment....
black321

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Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 12, 2022 - 2:47pm

 rhahl wrote:

Here is the same information in spoken word form. How funny is this?


Not an answer to either of my questions... 
I'm no scholar...but WTF is he talking about? He's blaming Ukraine's attack on the Donbas region, which has been a conflict area since 2014, as justification for Russia invading? 
Ukraine fighting within its own country a self declared "republic" only recognized by Russia and Syria...and somehow the Russian invasion of this area, let alone Ukraine is justified?

VV was right. 
rhahl

rhahl Avatar



Posted: Apr 12, 2022 - 1:56pm

 black321 wrote:
 rhahl wrote:
 
funny.
Perhaps more nuanced questions.
Considering the west/nato actions....
1) Do the actions in any way justify the invasion of Ukraine?
2) Do they justify the blatant bombing of civilian targets?
 
Here is the same information in spoken word form. How funny is this?
black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 12, 2022 - 12:52pm

 rhahl wrote:


funny.
Perhaps more nuanced questions.
Considering the west/nato actions....
1) Do the actions in any way justify the invasion of Ukraine?
2) Do they justify the blatant bombing of civilian targets?

R_P

R_P Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 12, 2022 - 12:33pm


rhahl

rhahl Avatar



Posted: Apr 12, 2022 - 12:11pm

 VV wrote:
 rhahl wrote:
  If you won't believe an old American spook how about a Swiss one? https://www.schweizer-standpun... "The Russians want a distance between NATO and Russia. The core element of NATO is US nuclear power. That is the essence of NATO. When I worked at NATO, Jens Stoltenberg– he was then my boss – used to said: "NATO is a nuclear power". Today, the US deploys missile systems in Poland and Romania, that include the MK-41 launcher systems.
"Are these defensive weapons?
"Of course, the US says they are purely defensive. You can indeed fire antiballistic missiles from these launchers. But you can also launch nuclear missiles with the same system. These ramps are a few minutes away from Moscow. If in a situation of heightened tension in Europe, the Russians detect, with satellite imagery or intelligence, activities around these launch pads indicating preparations for a launch, will they wait until nuclear missiles are possibly launched towards Moscow? "Probably not ...
"… of course not. They would immediately launch a pre-emptive strike. The whole situation escalated after the US withdrew from the ABM Treaty. Under the ABM Treaty, they could not deploy such a system in Europe. The idea was precisely to maintain a certain reaction time in case of a confrontation. That was because mistakes could happen.

Who are you responding to? Me? Again I repeat: Why don't you come out and just say that you are a Russian sympathizer who supports Putin and his "military action". Clearly, everything you have posted so far seems to lead to that conclusion. If you are looking for support for that here... you might want to look elsewhere.
 
VV

VV Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 12, 2022 - 11:02am

 rhahl wrote:
  If you won't believe an old American spook how about a Swiss one?

https://www.schweizer-standpun...

"The Russians want a distance between NATO and Russia. The core element of NATO is US nuclear power. That is the essence of NATO. When I worked at NATO, Jens Stoltenberg– he was then my boss – used to said: "NATO is a nuclear power". Today, the US deploys missile systems in Poland and Romania, that include the MK-41 launcher systems.
"Are these defensive weapons?
"Of course, the US says they are purely defensive. You can indeed fire antiballistic missiles from these launchers. But you can also launch nuclear missiles with the same system. These ramps are a few minutes away from Moscow. If in a situation of heightened tension in Europe, the Russians detect, with satellite imagery or intelligence, activities around these launch pads indicating preparations for a launch, will they wait until nuclear missiles are possibly launched towards Moscow?

"Probably not ...
"… of course not. They would immediately launch a pre-emptive strike. The whole situation escalated after the US withdrew from the ABM Treaty . Under the ABM Treaty, they could not deploy such a system in Europe. The idea was precisely to maintain a certain reaction time in case of a confrontation. That was because mistakes could happen.

Who are you responding to? Me?

Again I repeat: Why don't you come out and just say that you are a Russian sympathizer who supports Putin and his "military action". Clearly, everything you have posted so far seems to lead to that conclusion. If you are looking for support for that here... you might want to look elsewhere.


thisbody

thisbody Avatar

Location: out of space
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 12, 2022 - 9:56am

Chomsky: US Policy Toward Russia Is Blocking Paths to De-escalation in Ukraine


rhahl

rhahl Avatar



Posted: Apr 12, 2022 - 8:31am

 VV wrote:
 rhahl wrote:
 
You still haven't addressed the arguments. What is internally inconsistent? 
 
p.s. I changed "old" to "retired" out of respect, and because I am retired myself, but not too old to understand things.

Why don't you come out and just say that you are a Russian sympathizer who supports Putin and his "military action". Clearly, everything you have posted so far seems to lead to that conclusion. If you are looking for support for that here... you might want to look elsewhere. 
 
If you won't believe an old American spook how about a Swiss one?
 
https://www.schweizer-standpunkt.ch/news-detailansicht-en-international/the-policy-of-the-usa-has-always-been-to-prevent-germany-and-russia-from-cooperating-more-closely.html
 
"The Russians want a distance between NATO and Russia. The core element of NATO is US nuclear power. That is the essence of NATO. When I worked at NATO, Jens Stoltenberg– he was then my boss – used to said: "NATO is a nuclear power". Today, the US deploys missile systems in Poland and Romania, that include the MK-41 launcher systems.
"Are these defensive weapons?

"Of course, the US says they are purely defensive. You can indeed fire antiballistic missiles from these launchers. But you can also launch nuclear missiles with the same system. These ramps are a few minutes away from Moscow. If in a situation of heightened tension in Europe, the Russians detect, with satellite imagery or intelligence, activities around these launch pads indicating preparations for a launch, will they wait until nuclear missiles are possibly launched towards Moscow?

"Probably not ...

"… of course not. They would immediately launch a pre-emptive strike. The whole situation escalated after the US withdrew from the ABM Treaty [Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty]. Under the ABM Treaty, they could not deploy such a system in Europe. The idea was precisely to maintain a certain reaction time in case of a confrontation. That was because mistakes could happen.

miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3283.1 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 12, 2022 - 4:57am

 Red_Dragon wrote:
Putin = Stalin
 
just f'n evil

Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar

Location: Gilead


Posted: Apr 12, 2022 - 4:34am

 miamizsun wrote:

authoritarian erasure of people and culture
reminds me of the chinese communist party's "soft genocide" of the uyghurs

Putin ‘resettling Ukrainians 5,500 miles away in Siberia and far east Russia’, report claims

People in Mariupol are being asked to sign papers claiming Ukrainian troops shelled their city 

 

Vladimir Putin has sent almost 100,000 Ukrainian refugees thousands of miles away from their home, to resettle in remote corners of Russia, including Siberia and the Arctic Circle, according to Kremlin documents.

Moscow made the emergency order last month to move 95,739 people of the Russian Federation, Ukraine, Donetsk, and Lugansk away from the war zones to be resettled as far as 5,500 miles away from their homes, the Kremlin decree seen by The i stated.

It comes amid several reports that Russian forces have allegedly forcibly disappeared, held captive or interrogated people in Ukrainian towns since Mr Putin’s invasion of the country on 24 February.

The decree stated that “taking into account the current situation” in Ukraine, the Russian federation “approves the distribution” of citizens to the “constituent entities of the Russian Federation” and asked authorities to “ensure the reception” of 95,739 people.

It included provisions to send 11,398 people to Siberia, 7,218 to the Far East and 7,023 to the North Caucasus, including other regions such as the heavily-militarised republics of Chechnya, Ingushetia and Dagestan.
Citing separate documents, the report added that people in the port city of Mariupol were being asked to sign papers that claimed Ukrainian troops shelled their city. The signatories were reportedly told they cannot return to Ukraine because they will face “persecution”.

The number of Ukrainians that have been internally displaced has reached over 7.1 million since the invasion of the country, according to the International Organisation for Migration.

Sima Bahous, director of UN Women, said the “mass displacement with the large presence of conscripts and mercenaries, and the brutality displayed against Ukrainian civilians, has raised all red flags”.

 


Putin = Stalin
miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3283.1 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 12, 2022 - 4:23am

authoritarian erasure of people and culture
reminds me of the chinese communist party's "soft genocide" of the uyghurs

Putin ‘resettling Ukrainians 5,500 miles away in Siberia and far east Russia’, report claims

People in Mariupol are being asked to sign papers claiming Ukrainian troops shelled their city 

 

Vladimir Putin has sent almost 100,000 Ukrainian refugees thousands of miles away from their home, to resettle in remote corners of Russia, including Siberia and the Arctic Circle, according to Kremlin documents.

Moscow made the emergency order last month to move 95,739 people of the Russian Federation, Ukraine, Donetsk, and Lugansk away from the war zones to be resettled as far as 5,500 miles away from their homes, the Kremlin decree seen by The i stated.

It comes amid several reports that Russian forces have allegedly forcibly disappeared, held captive or interrogated people in Ukrainian towns since Mr Putin’s invasion of the country on 24 February.

The decree stated that “taking into account the current situation” in Ukraine, the Russian federation “approves the distribution” of citizens to the “constituent entities of the Russian Federation” and asked authorities to “ensure the reception” of 95,739 people.

It included provisions to send 11,398 people to Siberia, 7,218 to the Far East and 7,023 to the North Caucasus, including other regions such as the heavily-militarised republics of Chechnya, Ingushetia and Dagestan.
Citing separate documents, the report added that people in the port city of Mariupol were being asked to sign papers that claimed Ukrainian troops shelled their city. The signatories were reportedly told they cannot return to Ukraine because they will face “persecution”.

The number of Ukrainians that have been internally displaced has reached over 7.1 million since the invasion of the country, according to the International Organisation for Migration.

Sima Bahous, director of UN Women, said the “mass displacement with the large presence of conscripts and mercenaries, and the brutality displayed against Ukrainian civilians, has raised all red flags”.

 
R_P

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Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 12, 2022 - 12:07am

Putin’s War in Ukraine Is a Watershed. Time for America to Get Real.
Red_Dragon

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Location: Gilead


Posted: Apr 11, 2022 - 7:08pm

Ukraine accuses Russia of chemical weapons attack in Mariupol
Red_Dragon

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Location: Gilead


Posted: Apr 11, 2022 - 6:19pm

In a national address late on Monday, Zelenskiy said Russia claimed its forces could use chemical weapons against the defenders of Mariupol and he was taking the allegations seriously.
miamizsun

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Location: (3283.1 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 11, 2022 - 10:06am


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