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NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Feb 7, 2022 - 2:39pm

 Ohmsen wrote:


Roughly 18% of population in Ukraine are Russian, mainly living in the east. Crimea has belonged to Russia (and USSR in between) since centuries. Their only navy port that doesn't freeze over during winter time is in and around Sevastopol (Crimea). 




re Crimea:

Following the Russian Revolution of 1917, Crimea became an autonomous republic within the Russian SFSR in the Soviet Union. During World War II, Crimea was downgraded to the Crimean Oblast and the entirety of one of its indigenous populations, the Crimean Tatars, were deported to Central Asia, an act recognized as a genocide by Ukraine and three other countries. In 1954, the Soviet Union transferred Crimea to the Ukrainian SSR from the Russian SFSR.<5> The transfer to Ukraine was made by Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev, a Ukrainian by birth.
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Feb 7, 2022 - 2:31pm

 Ohmsen wrote:

Stop deflecting.

No evidence has been publicly produced so far.

Perhaps, because it could unsettle the public.



Your claim:
The US installed a puppet regime
My reply
A link to a Wikipedia entry on the results of the 2019 election
Your response
No evidence has been publicly produced so far.
  
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Feb 7, 2022 - 2:27pm

 Ohmsen wrote:

Since the US and NATO put up a (CIA inspired) puppet-regime in Ukraine and there's been a constant war, where's the evidence, that Russia is going to invade Ukraine?

That press-legato strongly reminds a thinking mind of WMDs in Iraq. Doesn't it?

2. due to the Russian annexation of Crimea.

3. as Baerbock said, "it is hard not to see that as a threat". The troop build-up has only become more dramatic since.


NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Feb 7, 2022 - 2:22pm

 Ohmsen wrote:

Since the US and NATO put up a (CIA inspired) puppet-regime in Ukraine and there's been a constant war, where's the evidence, that Russia is going to invade Ukraine?

That press-legato strongly reminds a thinking mind of WMDs in Iraq. Doesn't it?

I beg your pardon?
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Feb 7, 2022 - 1:58pm

 Ohmsen wrote:

Fuck you, too.

For the record:
1. The social welfare state has been in decline since the late 1970s. I've been working as social worker for decades and the decline is felt by all Germans. Don't trust these lies spread by an NZ self-styled 'observer', who's shilling for neo-liberalism unlimited.
2. The role of the states as spearheading NATO was largely disputed then, especially, but not limited to within the US.
3. What is he talking about, at all? Geez...
4. Nobody in Europe wants to be ruled by Russia. The constantly hyped so-called Russian hegemony is a myth purported by the US, NATO, and EU.
5. There may be people on this planet, Slavs included, who are hungry for peace! - Folks shilling for the war-industry generally are not!


you might want to retract that first line to stay on the boards here, just saying. Try fluffy bunnies or something. That would work fine.

Yes, the social welfare state has been in decline. I agree. All western economies are suffering from growing wealth inequality. I agree with that too, if you want to make that point. But I am an employer. Most days I wish I were my employee. Honestly the rules are pretty comfortable for employees in Germany. Mandatory social security, health insurance, unemployment insurance, etc.. (which btw I all totally support).  Contrary to appearances, I am far removed from being a neo-liberal.

Russian hegemony is not a myth. Nor is it peddled by the US NATO and the EU. It is a fact and you are seeing it played out today in Ukraine. To pretend otherwise is flippant obscurantism.



NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Feb 7, 2022 - 1:44pm

 GeneP59 wrote:
This is how I see it going down.
Putin and Xi signed a pact.
after Olympics is over, Putin invades Ukraine
draws the West and US into war.
Xi then makes China’s move to annex Taiwan 
Iran sees the US stretched thinly and Nukes Israel 
And the same goes for Little Rocket-man sets off a nuke in Japan and invades South Korea 
And there you have it friends, the start of WWIII and the demise of modern mankind. Smok’em if you got’em and watch these events unfold.
Too many egomaniacs searching for world domination.
If you thing the supply chain is messed up now, just watch.
So is it too late to buy a fallout shelter? {#Eek}
 
ok, you might be stretching it, but my neighbours are seriously expecting Putin to shut down gas supplies to Germany as soon as he invades Ukraine. I don't think NATO will go to war for Ukraine, but in response they will be forced to draw a line between the Baltic states, Poland, Hungary etc. beyond behind which the NATO umbrella kicks in. 
China taking Taiwan only seems to be matter of time. You could be right. They might seize the moment now.  Iran, North Korea... nah..   but supply chains.. yep. ballsed up big time.
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Feb 7, 2022 - 1:31pm

 Ohmsen wrote:

Off your meds you seem.
All of it is simply wrong. Ready to jump to conclusions seems to be your basic instinct, based on paparazzi-news. By now, I feel sorry to even have answered you in any personal details. Bye.



Whatever. Träum was Schönes.

For the record:
1. the social welfare state, contrary to assertions by Ohmsen, is by no means dead in Germany. It is very much alive and kicking.
2. Secondly, the failure of the EU (including Germany) to intervene in the Balkan war led to atrocities and war crimes on both sides of the conflict. Thank God the States had the balls to get involved. Ask any Bosnian, ok, maybe not Serb-Bosnians or the Serbs themselves, but any other of the ethnicities in former Yugoslavia.
3. Monarchy is perhaps the singularly worst form of government to choose if you want to avoid armed conflict in future.
4. Fourthly, virtually all the people I know from Eastern bloc countries are highly alarmed by the Russian troop build-up in the Ukraine. None of them want to fall back under Russian hegemony.
5. Any division on power structures based on racial or ethnic divisions really belongs in the dust-bin of history. Slavic brotherhood might be all well and good, just the majority of slavs themselves don't seem to be that keen on it.
GeneP59

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Posted: Feb 7, 2022 - 1:12pm

This is how I see it going down.
Putin and Xi signed a pact.
after Olympics is over, Putin invades Ukraine
draws the West and US into war.
Xi then makes China’s move to annex Taiwan 
Iran sees the US stretched thinly and Nukes Israel 
And the same goes for Little Rocket-man sets off a nuke in Japan and invades South Korea 
And there you have it friends, the start of WWIII and the demise of modern mankind.

Smok’em if you got’em and watch these events unfold.
Too many egomaniacs searching for world domination.
If you thing the supply chain is messed up now, just watch.
So is it too late to buy a fallout shelter? {#Eek}
 
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Feb 7, 2022 - 1:01pm

 Ohmsen wrote:


Did I ever say I 'bemoaned' the fall of the wall? - I guess, not. What are you READING? - Kaffe-Satz?

Unable to walk in some other's moccasins, you seem. 

Empathy? None. Getting triggered by words at random? 100%.

you:
1. decry the invasion of US values into Germany
2. predict the downfall of the EU
3. defend Russia's sphere of influence over the rights of its satellite states to self-determination
4. champion monarchy () as a mode of keeping the peace in Europe

did I get something wrong in my reading? 

NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Feb 7, 2022 - 12:49pm

 Ohmsen wrote:


Eew, loosing your cool there?
I wasn't bashing America, although it may seem to you like I did. My ardour isn't tearing anything down, ey!?!!



oh, I don't need to chill as I am not losing my cool in the slightest. I am simply flabbergasted. I don't know ANYONE here in southern Germany (and I know a lot of people) who bemoan the fall of the wall.  The only guy I met was an ageing Marxist in Leipzig. Party member, who couldn't believe people would turn their backs on the Soviet dream simply because they wanted to eat bananas.   Given what you have said, that is roughly where you are on my spectrum. 
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Feb 7, 2022 - 12:39pm

 Ohmsen wrote:


Not submitting, yes. Thanks. And yes, currently I'm not leaving my apartment as often as I used to in pre-corona times...

I know some people from the former eastern bloc, and have met countless people from the former GDR as co-workers, and even in private relations, and talked to them a lot over many years. Before the wall came down, I... better not get into that on a public forum. - My to-be daughter-in-law is Hungarian. My son studied in Slovenia's capitol, Ljubljana. 

As for communist atrocities carried out against their own 'proletariat', as well as the machinations of oligarchic rulers I can't object to your reasoning.

It is not my point, however.

For oligarchs exploiting a so-called 'proletariat', you as a presumed 'Yankee' can look right back at your home front, imho. If in doubt check homelessness, freedom-of-the-press, health-care, death penalty, overflowing correctional facilities, to name only a few, ...and not to forget the daily war in the streets of your cities.

I've been observing the American wave spilling over the Atlantic into my home-country ever since I grew up, for its good and bad parts, too. The latter in my view was enabled through liberal politics and privatizations (the market rules), starting in the US in the late 1970s. and copied in Europe as well, virtually-backed currency, and in Germany, people got poorer and poorer, the Sozialstaat got dismantled, and Deutschland from a country 'never ever again' to carry war to another country engaged in NATO bombings on the Balkan, etc. ...all until today's even greater miseries. 

I still can observe. Even if mostly from my apartment, thanks to another great US invention, initially named as DARPA-Net... 

*Cheerio!*

Firstly, I am not a yankee but a New Zealander with 1/32 German blood, 1/64 Neanderthal DNA and share 98% of my genetic make-up with pigs, FWIW.  Not that any of that matters. And I have lived in Germany off and on since 1987. I was here when the wall came down. Travelled extensively through Eastern Germany, visited Poland and the Czech Republic, albeit both briefly. I have only lived in the States for five months. Again, none of that is very relevant.

Are you seriously holding up Soviet-era states as a better social solution than western democracies?  I am not trying to paint western democracies as nirvana either, as all of them are beset with major social issues. But compared to Soviet states ... really?  The long queues to buy non-existent goods? The sub-standard housing? The absolutely appalling air quality? The state spying?  The restrictions on movement? The indoctrination? The almost total lack of any consumer goods? The absence of any meaningful quality/environmental controls? I mean, seriously? You really think that was better?

And if it is simply a pathological distaste for anything American, then surely you must be a fan of European legislation that keeps the chlorinated chicken at bay?  But this too, you seem happy to disparage in your ardour to tear it all down. 

westslope

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Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Feb 6, 2022 - 4:54pm

 Ohmsen wrote:

I get it. So, the Bidens, Trumps, Bushs, etc. aren't oligarchs. Ahum.

.....



I do not believe they are.  But they sure look like it from the outside, especially the Trump clan.  


NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Feb 6, 2022 - 4:28pm

 Ohmsen wrote:

My advice (wenn ich König wär' lautet ganz einfach), make peace, not war! As someone else has said before...

Russia never invaded into Europe (apart from fighting the huns and Napoleon back, who invaded Russia first). Crimea belongs to them since centuries. So, politics of peace and negotiations with Russia, as the head of the German navy suggested (and got booted for his statements) would be far better than transatlantic war mongering. US (and US-driven EU- and NATO-) hegemony in Europe is a definite no-go and bound to fail. (How many Vietnams and Afghanistans is the global capitalist military-industrial complex willing to create, and for how long? And how long are we, the people willing to accept that?) Also probably to fail is the EU in the foreseeable future, be it that a 'Great Reset' succeeds, as a last resort, which I find (and hope) is not very probable. 

For the US role, I posted something further down below.

As you can tell, I'm not subjecting to your apparent world-view of lacking alternatives to the current corporate-driven policy of constant growth, money- and war-mongering. 

*Cheers!*

I think the word you were looking for in the last sentence was submitting, but JFC, do you ever leave your apartment? Go and speak with the people from any number of former eastern bloc countries - Poles, Lithuanians, Czechs, Hungarians, etc. etc. The concept of Russia as some sort of peaceful benefactor is just so far removed from the truth it's ludicrous, not counting the millions of its own citizens who died from its totalitarian past. Come on, get real. 

When even the Ukrainians want to leave your brotherhood, you know you must have really stuffed up.  And the economics of Russia is in no way different to those you bemoan about the West, except that the robber barons are unfettered by annoying legislation like they are in the EU and other western countries. If its emiseration of the proletariat you are looking for, Russia would be a good place to start.

R_P

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Posted: Feb 5, 2022 - 1:50pm

 kurtster wrote:
You have never admitted to getting anything wrong, ever, as long as I can remember.

Enough about you.
kurtster

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Posted: Feb 5, 2022 - 1:49pm

 R_P wrote:
 kurtster wrote:
As always ...

... disingenuous.
 
You have never admitted to getting anything wrong, ever, as long as I can remember.
R_P

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Posted: Feb 5, 2022 - 1:44pm

 kurtster wrote:
As always ...

... disingenuous.
kurtster

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Posted: Feb 5, 2022 - 1:38pm

 R_P wrote:
 kurtster wrote:
We seem to have an international blurring of definitions.  You weren't nuanced enough for me to understand. https://www.google.com/search?q=Republicanism&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

2. (in the US) the principles or policies of the Republican Party.


That's not the (most) common reading. The fact that it says "2." shows it. That, and the fact that in the past you've emphasized that the U.S. is a republic, not a democracy. Feel free to pretend otherwise.
 
While it may not be the most common reading, I am in the US in case you forget.  So it is a legitimate first take (reading) for me.

Yes, I have long emphasized that the U.S. is a republic, not a democracy.  I am not and have not ever pretended otherwise. 

What does that have to do with the point at hand, namely your claiming ignorance on my part for misunderstanding your point ?

I have provided you with a legitimate basis for my interpretation of the term in the context you originally provided. 

Obviously not good enough for you to admit my take on your statement is legitimate based upon my location and point of reference.  As always ...
R_P

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Posted: Feb 5, 2022 - 12:44pm

 kurtster wrote:
We seem to have an international blurring of definitions.  You weren't nuanced enough for me to understand.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Republicanism&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

2. (in the US) the principles or policies of the Republican Party.


That's not the (most) common reading. The fact that it says "2." shows it.

That, and the fact that in the past you've emphasized that the U.S. is a republic, not a democracy. Feel free to pretend otherwise.


kurtster

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Posted: Feb 5, 2022 - 12:26pm

 R_P wrote:
 kurtster wrote:
I do not disagree with that at all. And it is a problem to be sure.  And it is a problem on both sides of the aisle here in the USA to be clear although you do not seem to agree by omission of democrats in your statement. I just disagree with calling those three POTUS' oligarchs.

Republicanism doesn't include Democrats? By virtue of his (perhaps fake) wealth, Trump comes closest if money is the metric.
 
We seem to have an international blurring of definitions.  You weren't nuanced enough for me to understand.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Republicanism&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

2. (in the US) the principles or policies of the Republican Party.

Living in the US, that was my take.

And in my mind, wealth alone is not the primary metric for defining an oligarch.  While I consider Bezos to be an oligarch, I do not consider Musk to be one, yet.  Musk does not seem to have crossed the line to buying influence to affect national and international affairs.  I do reserve judgment on this however because of his involvement in China which is too early for me to say anything conclusive.

R_P

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Posted: Feb 5, 2022 - 12:18pm

 kurtster wrote:
I do not disagree with that at all. And it is a problem to be sure.  And it is a problem on both sides of the aisle here in the USA to be clear although you do not seem to agree by omission of democrats in your statement.

I just disagree with calling those three POTUS' oligarchs.

Republicanism doesn't include Democrats?

By virtue of his (perhaps fake) wealth, Trump comes closest if money is the metric.

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