That works for most of the voting public lately. The choice is only between liars anymore. Whose do you like best is the question, pragmatically speaking.
It looks the better liar won this election cycle.
I got nothing else.
"The choice is only between liars anymore."
People have probably been making that claim since the beginning of organized politics.
"It looks the better saner liar won this election cycle." ftfy...
That works for most of the voting public lately. The choice is only between liars anymore. Whose do you like best is the question, pragmatically speaking.
It looks the better liar won this election cycle.
I got nothing else.
Without getting into lie vs. misstatement or the sheer quantity, I believe the question is who's lies have done the most damage and that is trump
That works for most of the voting public lately. The choice is only between liars anymore. Whose do you like best is the question, pragmatically speaking.
It looks the better liar won this election cycle.
I got nothing else.
Keep lying to yourself if thatâs what it takes to sleep better at night.
The single most profound revelation of the Trump presidency: that there is a large fraction of the electorate eager to be lied to so long as the lies stoke their grievances.
That works for most of the voting public lately. The choice is only between liars anymore. Whose do you like best is the question, pragmatically speaking.
The whole point of my original post was calling out what I saw as the perception (mine) or POV presented in this thread that Trump is the only one who is doing the lying.
Trump happens to be the only one who is currently president.
Yes, lying is unacceptable in a court of law. In the court of public opinion, that changes. That is where we get into the ends justify the means, which I also agree is unacceptable, yet it happens all of time and seems to be getting more accepted as standard practice the longer I live. Do not condone it and never have, but it happens too much to do much more than say it is what it is.
The single most profound revelation of the Trump presidency: that there is a large fraction of the electorate eager to be lied to so long as the lies stoke their grievances.
1. There are more than two sides. 2. No, whataboutism is an illegitimate tactic no matter who uses it—at least if it is used to justify bad behavior. As a critique of hypocrisy it's fair game, but that's a meta-criticism, not a justification.
So anyone who defended Clinton's lies and Obama's lies has no legitimacy to call out Trump's lies by this reasoning.
Not talking about defending any particular lie, I'm talking about defending the tactic of lying. Of legitimizing the act of lying as a tool of statecraft.
You claim not to have defended Trump's lies and I'm not going to sift thru all your posts to call you on that. You are, however, defending his dishonesty by literally using the phrase "what about". That does not justify lying. Previous presidents were wrong to lie. Trump is wrong to lie. Bill Clinton's lies don't excuse Trumps. Barack Obama's lies don't excuse Trump's. Trump's Won't excuse Biden's.
No, not actually. I am only using it on the same playing field already established here.
The whole point of my original post was calling out what I saw as the perception (mine) or POV presented in this thread that Trump is the only one who is doing the lying. Simple as that.
I completely agree with you on what follows the bolded. I know that at least every POTUS in my lifetime has lied and what they are since LBJ. I'm sure that Eisenhower and JFK told some major ones in their time, but I would have to search for them as I do not recall anything profound as I sit here. Truman musta', too, but again I would have to go search. Yes, Truman was POTUS when I was born. Yes, there are a few others here too who are this old but not many.
Yes, lying is unacceptable in a court of law. In the court of public opinion, that changes. That is where we get into the ends justify the means, which I also agree is unacceptable, yet it happens all of time and seems to be getting more accepted as standard practice the longer I live. Do not condone it and never have, but it happens too much to do much more than say it is what it is.
1. There are more than two sides. 2. No, whataboutism is an illegitimate tactic no matter who uses it—at least if it is used to justify bad behavior. As a critique of hypocrisy it's fair game, but that's a meta-criticism, not a justification.
So anyone who defended Clinton's lies and Obama's lies has no legitimacy to call out Trump's lies by this reasoning.
Not talking about defending any particular lie, I'm talking about defending the tactic of lying. Of legitimizing the act of lying as a tool of statecraft.
You claim not to have defended Trump's lies and I'm not going to sift thru all your posts to call you on that. You are, however, defending his dishonesty by literally using the phrase "what about". That does not justify lying. Previous presidents were wrong to lie. Trump is wrong to lie. Bill Clinton's lies don't excuse Trumps. Barack Obama's lies don't excuse Trump's. Trump's Won't excuse Biden's.
I could write a page or three for an answer, but in the big picture, it really doesn't matter anymore.
The die is cast. Nearly all of our remaining civil liberties have been usurped in the name of Covid 19. Everyone is rolling over and playing dead. Resistance is futile and those who do will be brutally canceled. The fight belongs to you now, the younger who still have a clue. At my age, pfffffttttt, it's over.
But we have different views that clash. I am not a globalist. I see the loss of our civil liberties as inevitable with the increase of globalism. You seem to remain optimistic that will not happen. I hope that you are right.
You seem to be not just missing the point, but diving into a ditch to avoid it.
When Trump liesâconstantly, on every topic imaginable, in every forum available, at every opportunity; when he insists that anyone under his authority back those lies up; when he pretends he has power he doesn't to do things that governments are prohibited from doingâand his supporters excuse this as just a matter of style, they are normalizing this behavior. You all have ceded any moral authority to complain about any future president doing exactly the same thing for their agenda.
Joe Biden lies? So what? Your own defense of Trump will be trotted out to defend him. That's just his style, and your tears of impotent outrage are delicious.
You don't get to hold your political opponents to a higher standard of honesty you hold your allies, or your self. These last four years have seen an entire political movement burn its last few shreds of credibility in a desperate attempt to cling to power. It exiled the few voices inside its camp that dared hold to principle as traitors. You deserve what you'll get for this.
Unfortunately the rest of us don't, and we get it too..
Amen.
There are those that try and establish this ridiculous false equivalency whereby (Insert name of Democrat President here) = Trump lies. The sheer number, order of magnitude and harm Trump lies have caused our population, institutions and to the Constitution itself makes it clear where the real danger lies and only fools try to reason otherwise. Those that do have drunk the Koolaide and continue to blindly and ignorantly quaff it down.
Whether they admit it or not they are fully on board with the idea of the "The ends justify the means" even though Trump rarely has has a game plan he sticks to. The saying could be better amended to "Trump's whims justify his means". The puppets at the mercy of the puppeteer.
I could write a page or three for an answer, but in the big picture, it really doesn't matter anymore.
The die is cast. Nearly all of our remaining civil liberties have been usurped in the name of Covid 19. Everyone is rolling over and playing dead. Resistance is futile and those who do will be brutally canceled. The fight belongs to you now, the younger who still have a clue. At my age, pfffffttttt, it's over.
But we have different views that clash. I am not a globalist. I see the loss of our civil liberties as inevitable with the increase of globalism. You seem to remain optimistic that will not happen. I hope that you are right.
You seem to be not just missing the point, but diving into a ditch to avoid it.
When Trump lies—constantly, on every topic imaginable, in every forum available, at every opportunity; when he insists that anyone under his authority back those lies up; when he pretends he has power he doesn't to do things that governments are prohibited from doing—and his supporters excuse this as just a matter of style, they are normalizing this behavior. You all have ceded any moral authority to complain about any future president doing exactly the same thing for their agenda.
Joe Biden lies? So what? Your own defense of Trump will be trotted out to defend him. That's just his style, and your tears of impotent outrage are delicious.
You don't get to hold your political opponents to a higher standard of honesty you hold your allies, or your self. These last four years have seen an entire political movement burn its last few shreds of credibility in a desperate attempt to cling to power. It exiled the few voices inside its camp that dared hold to principle as traitors. You deserve what you'll get for this.
Unfortunately the rest of us don't, and we get it too..
Let's review please ... . Lazy8 wrote:
kurtster wrote:
Funny thing about you all who constantly bitch about Trump's lying. You all make it sound like he is the only one who has ever told a lie while in office.
The previous guy had a bunch of whoppers like " shovel ready projects " and "you can keep your doctor " and "you can keep your plan " even though he passed legislation that made the last two impossible just by the very nature of what the legislation mandated.
You all have replaced him with an even bigger liar. 40 plus years of whoppers all on the record while being an elected federal office holder as well as I believe at least twice caught outright plagiarist.
Can't wait for the Biden Lies thread.
But who cares really? All presidents lie. Whatabout...
Do you understand the implications of the blank check you're writing?
The above is the point I was addressing.
You all have ceded any moral authority to complain about any future president doing exactly the same thing for their agenda.
But before that you bring up whataboutism ...
But who cares really? All presidents lie. Whatabout...
So only one side gets to use whataboutism ?
Joe Biden lies? So what? Your own defense of Trump will be trotted out to defend him. That's just his style, and your tears of impotent outrage are delicious.
You don't get to hold your political opponents to a higher standard of honesty you hold your allies, or your self.
So anyone who defended Clinton's lies and Obama's lies has no legitimacy to call out Trump's lies by this reasoning.
Those here who defend the previous liars by saying that Trump has told more lies than them are simply engaging in whataboutism, plain and simple.
Go back through this thread and others. I don't recall having defended Trump's lying. Him and his policies to be sure, but not his lying.
So here's a dose of whataboutism, and I'm calling it that myself.
What about all of the lies told about Trump ? By the media and the democrats and the never Trumper's ? They are okay by you ? Or were there no lies told by these parties ?
No one here save a very few believes these parties have fabricated anything about Trump, starting with the Russian collusion.
So all of those here who are presently complaining about Trump's lies have no standing to defend Biden by excusing them by saying Trump lied, too ? How is that going to work exactly ?
Joe Biden lies? So what? Your own defense of Trump will be trotted out to defend him. That's just his style, and your tears of impotent outrage are delicious.
You don't get to hold your political opponents to a higher standard of honesty you hold your allies, or your self. These last four years have seen an entire political movement burn its last few shreds of credibility in a desperate attempt to cling to power. It exiled the few voices inside its camp that dared hold to principle as traitors. You deserve what you'll get for this.
Hmmm.
The fight belongs to you now, the younger who still have a clue. At my age, pfffffttttt, it's over.
You take my statement of the acceptance of my situation as surrender. Acceptance ≠ surrender.
It is a statement about a changing tactic, not surrender. Perhaps what followed going into thoughts about civil liberties did not come off as intended. But then again, I'm still trying to figure out how to update my profile. Do I add that I am a murderer or will simply a killer do ? I thought that was a pretty hyperbolic accusation, but evidently not ...
. Why don't we try figuring out who is not lying ? That would be much simpler, eh ? I believe that was kinda the point I made in my initial remark that you replied to.
