bokey wrote: 
Oh lordy... 'scuze me while I

 bokey wrote: 
 

 bokey wrote: 

 Lazy8 wrote: 
Lemonade and Robitussin shooters are cool.

 manbirdexperiment wrote:
 
If you had a card table you could open a lemonade stand, if you had some lemonade.

 Lazy8 wrote: 
Is there a queue forming somewhere? Because I have a lawn chair and a thermos of coffee. 

 kurtster wrote: 
No offense taken. You'll have to work harder than that to hurt my feelings!

 Lazy8 wrote: 

As you should.  It is germane to the topic.  Wasn't picking on you.  Just tired and beating a dead horse.

 kurtster wrote: 
I stand by my googled quote!

 Lazy8 wrote: 
A true story.  I truly believe that the ends should as a rule not be the excuse to justify the means.  When Clinton said it, it pissed me off even more than when he got into what the meaning of the word "is" is.  Just been trying to point out to all those Cheney bashers, they live in a glass house.  Slick was guilty of the same things Bush and Cheney are being bashed for with Holder as an accomplice.  Memories are either short or convenient.  Holder was threatened with the prospect of investigation of his participation in Rendition under Clinton if he pursued prosecuting Bush administration members for "torture".  Another case of pot / kettle.

Personally, I'm getting real fed up with politics and people who only see one side of issues.  These one siders, no matter which side they are on, are becoming so bitter and full of hate, that they are wasting their lives away for meaningless drivel over which they have no control over.  I love a good debate, but most of what passes for a debate these days is people scraping their backsides and slinging the crap at their opponents.  Very few people are capable of more than copy and paste anymore.  Original thinking is becoming just as lost as common sense.

!Sigh!

 kurtster wrote:
 
To quote Henry Steele Commager (a much deeper thinker than Slick): "The means, in short, determine the ends. And any system of government which used man as a means to an end, however noble, would inevitably find the end, achieved at the cost of the degradation of man, ignoble."

 EleventhMan wrote: 
And to again quote the President from the administration before the previous one, President Clinton, who was a practioner of RENDITION, "the ends justify the means".

We too can agree to disagree.

Be safe and have a nice holiday.

 exotraxx wrote: 
indeed.

 exotraxx wrote:
 

 Servo wrote: 
If Christ is our Saviour, He doesn't need organized groups to get His back. Anyone who says so has a different agenda.

Just sayin'.

 musik_knut wrote: 
thanks MK for the good wishes..and the same to you & your family....we agree to disagree...

I don't agree with your belief on water boarding (and apparently neither do many many sources...I'm linking to Wikipedia here (which we can debate about it's legitimacy and intellectual veracity, but it does give several links to viable sources which is why I include it as a reasonable summary) link is here:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding  

I am not saying that which has been done to other individuals (like Daniel Pearl & Nick Berg) is OK...you're right,  no one spoke for them....but "an eye for an eye" is a principle we as Americans strenuously fight to oppose in favor of upholding that which is a higher value purpose....namely that 2 wrongs don't make a right.  Slamming planes into buildings isn't torture, it's mass murder.  Fear is the goal, and by sinking to their level, they achieve it.  America is a young and naive country where attacks on our soil are concerned....we have been very fortunate in the relatively few horrors that have occurred on our turf...which is why our reactions are so extreme. We have enjoyed a relatively peaceful existence in the homeland, where conflicts with other nations is concerned.

I believe Obama's gesture in releasing the memos is to begin the healing...because like I've already said, the result of the torture isn't the point...it's the FACT of it.  And without acknowledging the errors in judgment by the previous administration, airing them out and admitting their wrong, we can't move on as a country.   We as a people were horrified to see photos of abuse at Abu Ghraib, and hear of the endless acts of arrogant, wanton decision making in the past several years.  The wound has to be opened & aired out to heal & move on.  I also believe it was done to repair relationships in the world...perhaps not with our enemies, but with allies and those who might be....taking the "high road" so to speak.  However, I'm not naive enough to believe Obama (or any politician) is doing this solely for the humanitarian aspects of it. 

The end just doesn't justify the means.

now off I go to enjoy the weekend...and I hope you & yours do as well

 sirdroseph wrote: 
Roger that!  FYI my faith is close to what the Evangelicals profess...but I split from them in the "leadership via acquisition and force, vs. leadership by example" department.  I'm still 100% behind "Christ as Savior", but don't want to align with any other group that adds other stipulations.

 Servo wrote: 
I'm not talking about Arabs in general.  I'm refering to fundamentalist radical Islamists vis a vis Jihadists.  To me there is a huge difference between Arabs in general and Jihadists in particular.  I also disagree with your statement that they are our equals. 

As mrs. Amanda stated below, we are not tribally oriented (post deleted I see).   

Nor do we eat with one hand and wipe our arse with the other as a definition of hygene. 

Nor do we regard women as less than a piece of furniture or less than the family dog here in the US as Arabs do in general,  and in Saudi Arabia in particular as an example of a so called civilized Arab society.

Eye for an Eye ?