If you think it's easy to live under a bridge then you've never done it. Some people simply aren't wired for this world they're in.

 kurtster wrote: 
This could get really long.

First let me say that I do generally consider myself to be fairly conservative fiscally, so I have no representation in the .gov on that front.  Socially I'm really liberal, so I think the dems have a few decent ideas, but no stomach for what really should be said and no sense at all when it comes to paying for social programs (I support quite a few of those, from public education to public health care). Frankly I think the dems main failing is a failure to really embrace the progressive side of their party.  No we can't have welfare for all and unlimited arts and social programs. But we can have single payer health care, we can have gay marriage, we can have a solid public commons that supports and grows the underprivileged in our society, and keeps all but the absolute laziest from living under the bridges (and my conservative side could fix that problem too).

The dems haven't done enough on entitlement programs. They haven't done enough on taxation. They haven't made their case that they have a good set of ideas, and been willing to stand behind them even if it means not being re-elected.  This is good for me, because I doubt I would like a lot of the social stuff they would put forward. 

So to that point - the fact that re-election numbers are so high is our fault. We keep electing these bozos and then complaining about them for then next cycle. But then we re-elect them. What a bunch of dolts we are. Sure, money, gerrymandering, misleading ads.... whatever, we punch the ballot, it's our fault. As an electorate we are failing. We can't even mobilize half of us to show up. Bad on us.

I'm all out of order here, but I'm not going to fix it.  Vicitmhood. Yes, that's you. Go back and look at your previous post. It's all wah, wah, wah, Democrats, wah, wah, wah, won't let us play, wah, wah, wah, not our fault...... Sheesh. Put your fucking pants on, wipe off the tears, take credit and blame where appropriate, and get back in there with me and let's try to get 79% of the people to vote so we can toss out some of these idiots.  Sorry if that was a bit harsh, but that post was a whiny, bitchy tirade.

Wisconsin, Indiana and Ohio need to all get their shit together. The right needs to stop being so vindictive and the left needs to stop being so entitled. They need to sit down and work out a compromise. This means that neither side gets what they want, but they figure out a way to make it work. The electorate of all three deserve what they get if the officials can't get their crap together soon. Lather, rinse, repeat for the entire nation if we have a .gov shutdown in March.   

That's enough for now. I'm happy that you are active and in the debate. I'm glad you support the tea party. I want your participation even where we don't agree. I think there is enough good that we can compromise and be stronger/better together than we would be apart. If not we'll have to divide up the kids and the furniture and sell the house. And no one wins in that situation. Just don't tell me it's all my fault, and that you had nothing to do with it. This breakdown has been a long time coming. All sides are culpable and responsible and need to take part in the fix. 

 islander wrote: 

They do not get sent home.  85% of the incumbants won reelection to Congress in 2010. 

Victim, huh ?  Don't think so.  Only complaints I've heard from the non conservative side is that they didn't do enough.

As one of the few open supporters of the Tea Party here, I've picked on the Repubs almost as much as the Dems over the years.

In your non conservative viewpoint, just what specifically did the Dems do wrong in the past 2 years ?  I've said plenty, haven't heard much from you on the actual question.

And more to my opening points this evening, the Wisconsin Legislature has or is passing a law where if a member misses two scheduled days in a pay period, direct deposit of pay is stopped and members must show up on the floor to pick up their paychecks.  That'll get em back home !

I'll hang up and take the answers off the air.



In the morning ... 

 kurtster wrote: 


Are you serious? Stop claiming victim status, and work toward solutions. I won't even bother with the rest of the hyperbole.

Have high expectations for all officials regardless of party. Send them all home when they fail.

 romeotuma wrote: 

 islander wrote: 
I hear you, but and I have to say but on at least this much, The Repubs were allowed absolutely no input on any legislation that passed through Congress since Obama's election until the lame duck session after the vote in November.  No admendments to bills, no meetings with the White House, except for the one famous meeting where Obama actually told the repubs, I won, what you have to say will not be considered.

All the Repubs had was the fillibuster in the Senate and if it weren't for that they would have been totally irrelevant.  They were not allowed to do anything in the House whatsoever.

Had the Repubs been allowed some input on legislation, they would have been held just as responsible and we would not have had the House turnover in 2010. 

Right now, the bigger issue is in the States, Wisconsin, Indiana and soon Ohio, with Democrats fleeing their duties and responsibilities in order to delay the inevitable, going on record and voting on matters put before them.  Doing what they were duly elected and paid to do.  Show up and vote.

Attention will turn again to the House in Spring when the Repubs present their version of a Budget for Fiscal year 2012.  They will do (or better do) what Obama has promised but been afraid to do, tackle the big issues.  Obama is making them propose the cuts in entitlements and will make them out to be the heavy by saying they are gonna make Grandma eat cat food and go to the Veternarian for their medicine.  The Republicans are still screwed.  The public will blame the Repubs and vote Dem in 2012.  All the Repubs are gonna have is these two years.

And when the economy finally goes tits up because of the turmoil in the Middle East and energy prices rising to the point where our economy finally collapses, history will declare that the collapse was entirely the fault of the Repubs, just as history is blaming this greatest economic mess since the Great Depression on the Reublicans and especially Bush. 

Anyone talking about Dodd and Frank and Obama and their legislation and coercion regarding Fannie and Freddie ?  No.  Its all about Bush and going back to Graham and his undoing of Glass Stiegel even though a Democrat, Clinton had to sign the Bill.  No credible sources blame the Democrats for anything.

I must say that I started out this current run talking about the issues at the state level and this quickly got turned around to how the Republicans were to blame for everything.  That alone speaks for itself, eh ?

 hippiechick wrote: 
Good!  They can speed up the process by resigning ASAP!  Since the Dems are already quitting, that would be a clean sweep of all the idiots!  Finally, the common citizen of the US triumphs over special interests! 

Free at last!  Thank the FSM we're free at last!

 kurtster wrote: 
They may be saying that, but it is no more true than your claim of the republicans lack of responsibility for matters of late.  How about we all as a populace demand better from our elected leaders?  Let's stop with the blame them not us mentality and hold ALL of their feet to the fire and force them to work out a real compromise that will address the problems at hand.

 hippiechick wrote: 
You asked, I answered. 

 kurtster wrote: 
That's because Bush deserves the blame! He put us into a war with lies, and this is now a fact, Jack, like it or not. How many billions and lives went to fighting the war in Iraq?

 islander wrote: 
Don't turn this around on me, it's not about me. I get tired of the double standard around here.

 islander wrote:  
The Democrats have absolved themselves of everything that happened buring Bush's 8 years.  Bush has been blamed for everything.  That is fact.  Just ask Pelosi, Reid and Obama.  That's all I have heard for the past two years, Blame Bush, and nothing but.

The Democrats have accepted no responsibility for anything for the past 10 years.  Heck, the Dems were even instructed to avoid mentioning the Healthcare Bill during the 2010 election by the D leadership.

 hippiechick wrote: 
He may have been a bit blunt with you, but I think it was short of insulting. I'd bet it's a matter of style. If you prefer the reaction I get maybe you should try what I do: take a deep breath before responding and re-read before submitting. 

 kurtster wrote: 
That's as much crap as saying that the dems can be absolved of everything for the preceding 8 years.  The republicans don't have their fingerprints on anything because they refused to touch anything:


 

 kurtster wrote: 
They did a good job of f**king it up before then. How in the world did our budget get so out of whack to begin with, after Clinton had balanced it. Hmmm? I remember when the Repubs would have midnight meetings and lock the Dems out of the room.

How come you respectfully disagree with him, but insult me? Hmmmm...

 islander wrote: 

I will respectfully disagree with you.  The Repubs haven't had their fingerprints on anything coming out of Washington from January 20th, 2009 through December 2010.  The Repubs were shut out of everything, even to the extent of changing the locks on doors in the Capitol Building by the Democrats.

The Democrats had a Super Majority until Brown of Massachusetts was elected.  Other than a couple of nominations, what did the Republicans block in Congress during this peiod ?  Nothing that I can think of.

After two years of a Democrat Super Majority, the Democrats own everything. 

 kurtster wrote: 
Again, both parties are solidly culpable in the current state of affairs where very little is brought forward. Both parties have lost understanding of the word compromise. But the republicans were the initial instigators in the block everything and refuse to do anything that wasn't on their agenda party in recent history. 

 islander wrote: 
You are correct.  Its a poor way to lead.

I would not have made the remark "We Won" to anyone else in a discussion of these issues.  It was directed to someone who thinks exclusively in these terms.

 kurtster wrote:  Um, WHY was it never brought up for a vote? Because Senators filibustered every other dang thing, or threatened to, which effectively shut down the proceedings. The Republican strategy was (is) delay, delay, DELAY. And it's not about that crook Tom this time. They pushed out important business, betting (rightly) the new batch of crooks would have more success.

They ALL engage in dirty tricks. Every single one. To say the Dems are 'not doing their job' is horseshit. Their job is to fight for their constituents, with whatever means are available, whether it's filibustering or denying a quorum. You don't like it, I don't like it, but that's the way the game is played.

 cc_rider wrote: 

The Budget was never even brought up for a vote, that is the responsibility of Reid and Pelosi.  How can one vote on something that isn't even brought up for a vote ?

This is the new Democrat style, avoid voting and going on the record.