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Skydog

Skydog Avatar



Posted: Jun 15, 2022 - 7:52am

The 45th President was never the target of a coup.
Prior to the ride down the escalator in 2015 Trump was being watched by the CIA & FBI for his association with Russia.
Trump could not get loans from US banks because of his planned 'bankruptcies'. He is aka NY's biggest welfare queen,
Eric said it best;

Eric Trump in 2014: ‘We have all the funding we need out of Russia’
2014 Golf Digest article here, 
https://thehill.com/homenews/news/332270-eric-trump-in-2014-we-dont-rely-on-american-banks-we-have-all-the-funding-we/

FBI & CIA just doing the job WE pay them to do. They caught Manfort for it, good job guys. But failed with the Trump crimes, like selling and buying the same condos over and over and over and over. Tide can't get money that clean.
The legal and out in the open Impeachment of said Orange Orangutan was null and voided in the senate by his enablers. You might even call them Deep State MAGA Conspirators. No coup, just a cult on the GOP side or is it GQP?
Never a conspiracy or coup attempt against Trump, just everyone doing their job that they were sworn to do except the people with anti-American hopes and dreams and grand illusions or uncontrolled power.



islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 14, 2022 - 9:52pm

 kurtster wrote:

As I have said before ... Yes, he lost the fucking election.

Now since you and no one else here cares about the truth regarding the now proven illegitimate Russian Collusion CT that was used to undermine and attempt to overthrow his presidency the entire 4 years of his term, tell me why I should care about January 6th.


Keep on keeping on with that. You'll continue to get all the respect you deserve.
rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 14, 2022 - 2:45pm

 kurtster wrote:

As I have said before ... Yes, he lost the fucking election.

Now since you and no one else here cares about the truth regarding the now proven illegitimate Russian Collusion CT that was used to undermine and attempt to overthrow his presidency the entire 4 years of his term, tell me why I should care about January 6th.

I think your definition of "proof" ignores many of the details...otherwise referred to as facts.

Just because he wasn't removed from office doesn't mean he was innocent.  The irony of the two cases is that in the first Barr lied to protect Trump (and his job).  When that job was lost in the election, Barr apparently found his sense of duty and reason and turns on Trump.  Either way, what happened with regards to Russia has nothing to do with January 6.

Since you agree that the election has been lost, how do you continue to support someone that refuses to accept that outcome?  Someone who profits from its perpetuation, and that causes millions to distrust an election process that works well.  It's not perfect, but you can't find cases of fraud.  The ones you do find are overwhelmingly likely to be Trump supporters.

We can disagree on energy policy, the environment, tax rates, abortion, guns...that's fine.  What we can't disagree on is that the country and its form of government are worth saving.  We can disagree on the right size of that government, but I think we agree on the general form.  Trump has attacked OUR government (yours and mine) more aggressively than anyone since the civil war.  He was and is still attempting to destroy our democracy.  He plotted to evade the rules solely for personal gain.  That can't be allowed.

That's why you should care about Jan 6.  

kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Jun 14, 2022 - 11:50am

 kurtster wrote:

As I have said before ... Yes, he lost the fucking election.

Now since you and no one else here cares about the truth regarding the now proven illegitimate Russian Collusion CT that was used to undermine and attempt to overthrow his presidency the entire 4 years of his term, tell me why I should care about January 6th.


1. Trump was completely able to carry out his presidential duties while Bob Mueller conducted his investigation and IG Horowitz reviewed the FBI's conduct. So the investigations did not cripple Trump's presidency. 

2. The work of the FBI and Mueller were attempts to learn and publicly announce the truth.

3. You accepted Bill Barr's summary (misleading as it was) as pronouncement of the truth. You've used it was the basis for your nonstop cries that the Russia investigation amounted to nothing.

4. The level of interest amongst other RPers in the Russia investigation should have no impact on your interest in the truth about Jan. 6 and the events leading up to the riot. 

5. The Jan. 6 committee is presenting factual evidence about Trump's thinking and actions. There has been no credible rebuttal of those facts.

6. The committee is laying out evidence that Trump actively and personally tried to vacate the result of the election. Trump's phone call to Raffensperger proves that Trump was doing just that. Trump clearly pushed Raffensperger to illegally change the vote count in GA so as to let Trump win the state.

7. If you want to ignore the truth about Trump and the election, that's your pathetic business. Just don't expect any of us here to take you seriously or be respectful when conversing with you.
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 14, 2022 - 9:42am

 rgio wrote:
The crimes of Trump and his gang include 1) a conspiracy to defraud the U.S. and 2) to obstruct the functions of the government—both prosecutable crimes.  The charges are coming... He and his band of crooks plotted a bunch of scenarios... martial law, impounding voting machines, and oh yeah...stopping the counting of electoral votes using Mike Pence.   Kurt, do you agree he lost the election? If you do, what was he doing at his rally on the 6th?  How do you support a guy who said things like "stolen election" and "if Mike Pence does what he needs to" when you agree he lost?  He may not have personally charged the capital, but he sure as hell incited the anger displayed by so many that afternoon.  And when he saw what we going on... he did nothing.  A real leader and patriot.  Even his kids were telling him to do something, and he simply watched TV (what Nero would have done had there been a television around).  

.
Just so we're all clear...  Yes or No, did Trump lose the election of 2020?
 
As I have said before ... Yes, he lost the fucking election.

Now since you and no one else here cares about the truth regarding the now proven illegitimate Russian Collusion CT that was used to undermine and attempt to overthrow his presidency the entire 4 years of his term, tell me why I should care about January 6th.
rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 14, 2022 - 5:24am

 kurtster wrote:

They are not mutually exclusive. Trump explored every option available regarding the election.  Do remember that somewhere the standard for voter fraud is not is there any, but is there enough to toss out a vote.  How many judges would make that decision even if there was enough given the stakes ?  Can't think of any stupid enough.  They would certainly end up on someone's hit list.  Kinda like Kavanaugh ?

What exactly is the prosecuteable crime regarding Trump and January 6 ?

The crimes of Trump and his gang include 1) a conspiracy to defraud the U.S. and 2) to obstruct the functions of the government—both prosecutable crimes.  The charges are coming...

He and his band of crooks plotted a bunch of scenarios... martial law, impounding voting machines, and oh yeah...stopping the counting of electoral votes using Mike Pence.  

Kurt, do you agree he lost the election?

If you do, what was he doing at his rally on the 6th?  How do you support a guy who said things like "stolen election" and "if Mike Pence does what he needs to" when you agree he lost?  He may not have personally charged the capital, but he sure as hell incited the anger displayed by so many that afternoon.  And when he saw what we going on... he did nothing.  A real leader and patriot.  Even his kids were telling him to do something, and he simply watched TV (what Nero would have done had there been a television around).  

Just so we're all clear...  Yes or No, did Trump lose the election of 2020?

Skydog

Skydog Avatar



Posted: Jun 14, 2022 - 2:43am


Idaho officers getting death threats after arresting 31 Patriot Front white nationalists near Pride event

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/officers-death-threats-patriot-front-arrests-idaho-pride-rcna33311


Will truth be enough?




steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Jun 13, 2022 - 8:58pm

 kurtster wrote:

Across the board ?  Of course most judges will decide a case on its merits.

With a presidential election (especially this one) where the standard is as vague as enough or substantial ?

Nope, no way in hell is one judge going to throw the country into total chaos and put their life on the line for that.  Its pragmatism.

Hasn't happened yet in our modern history that I am aware of.  The last major case of voter fraud in a presidential election that I can think of was in 1960.  The election was not overturned.

“This Court has been presented with strained legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations, unpled in the operative complaint and unsupported by evidence,” U.S. District Judge Matthew Brann wrote. “In the United States of America, this cannot justify the disenfranchisement of a single voter, let alone all the voters of its sixth most populated state. Our people, laws, and institutions demand more.”

“This Court has been unable to find any case in which a plaintiff has sought such a drastic remedy in the contest of an election, in terms of the sheer volume of votes asked to be invalidated,” he said, “One might expect that when seeking such a startling outcome, a plaintiff would come formidably armed with compelling legal arguments and factual proof of rampant corruption … That has not happened.”

Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 13, 2022 - 8:54pm

 steeler wrote:

12-page statement issued today.




That thing is FAR too well organized with circles and arrows and a paragraph explaining what each one was. Footnotes from a guy that writes with a Sharpie? 
It's gotta be that the team has been working on this for a while. It'll be really interesting to see what comes later, since they seem to have emptied their chambers on this thing.
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 13, 2022 - 8:01pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
 kurtster wrote:

How many judges would make that decision even if there was enough given the stakes ?  Can't think of any stupid enough.  They would certainly end up on someone's hit list. 
#soletmegetthisstraight You're saying that without exception, across the land, there are no judges who will decide a case on its merits, let the chips fall where they may? They will opt for self-preservation 100% of the time. Is that what you're saying?
 
Across the board ?  Of course most judges will decide a case on its merits.

With a presidential election (especially this one) where the standard is as vague as enough or substantial ?

Nope, no way in hell is one judge going to throw the country into total chaos and put their life on the line for that.  Its pragmatism.

Hasn't happened yet in our modern history that I am aware of.  The last major case of voter fraud in a presidential election that I can think of was in 1960.  The election was not overturned.
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Jun 13, 2022 - 7:20pm

 kurtster wrote:

They are not mutually exclusive. Trump explored every option available regarding the election.  Do remember that somewhere the standard for voter fraud is not is there any, but is there enough to toss out a vote.  How many judges would make that decision even if there was enough given the stakes ?  Can't think of any stupid enough.  They would certainly end up on someone's hit list.  Kinda like Kavanaugh ?

What exactly is the prosecuteable crime regarding Trump and January 6 ?


You truly are a slavish minion. A slavish minion to perhaps the most corrupt human being in American history. j.f.c.
ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 13, 2022 - 6:55pm

 kurtster wrote:

How many judges would make that decision even if there was enough given the stakes ?  Can't think of any stupid enough.  They would certainly end up on someone's hit list. 


#soletmegetthisstraight

You're saying that without exception, across the land, there are no judges who will decide a case on its merits, let the chips fall where they may? They will opt for self-preservation 100% of the time. Is that what you're saying?
steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Jun 13, 2022 - 6:43pm

 Steely_D wrote:

After the first hearing last week, lots of Trump response. Haven't seen any of that this time, or did I miss it?


12-page statement issued today.

kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 13, 2022 - 6:06pm

 rgio wrote:
 kurtster wrote:
To rgio: One coup is ok but another isn't ?

There was only ever one coup.    One followed procedure, the other was an attempt to obstruct it.  One was about illegal influence from the outside, the other about overriding democracy from within.  One was based on investigating the truth, and the other was built on a lie to incite violence.   You can talk about them together all you want, but they are not the same.  The real similarity is this:  the only way for those who swore to uphold the Constitution against threats foreign and domestic can support the accused is by ignoring the facts. As usual, nice dodge about ignoring the real content of my prior posts.  So which do you support...Trump or the Constitution.  They're mutually exclusive.
 
They are not mutually exclusive. Trump explored every option available regarding the election.  Do remember that somewhere the standard for voter fraud is not is there any, but is there enough to toss out a vote.  How many judges would make that decision even if there was enough given the stakes ?  Can't think of any stupid enough.  They would certainly end up on someone's hit list.  Kinda like Kavanaugh ?

What exactly is the prosecuteable crime regarding Trump and January 6 ?
Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 13, 2022 - 5:47pm

After the first hearing last week, lots of Trump response. Haven't seen any of that this time, or did I miss it?
kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Jun 13, 2022 - 11:04am

KURT: ANSWER THE QUESTION:

Was Trump's call to Raffensperger a hoax? Trump called on Raffensperger to vacate Georgia's legitimate and final election results:



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik...–Raffensperger_phone_call

"Prior to the call to Raffensperger, Trump spoke repeatedly to state and local officials in at least three states in which he had lost, urging them to recount votes, throw out some ballots, or replace the Democratic slate of electors with a Republican slate."


Trump was told repeatedly that there was no evidence of fraud and that he had lost a free and fair election. Yet Trump still persisted in his attempt to have the election illegally fixed in his favor.

THOSE ARE THE FACTS. DEAL WITH THEM.
Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 13, 2022 - 8:57am

”…an apparently inebriated Rudy Guiliani…” was the person that TFG listened to after the election, instead of his own advisors.
rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 13, 2022 - 5:22am

 kurtster wrote:
To rgio: One coup is ok but another isn't ?

There was only ever one coup.   

One followed procedure, the other was an attempt to obstruct it.  One was about illegal influence from the outside, the other about overriding democracy from within.  One was based on investigating the truth, and the other was built on a lie to incite violence.  

You can talk about them together all you want, but they are not the same.  The real similarity is this:  the only way for those who swore to uphold the Constitution against threats foreign and domestic can support the accused is by ignoring the facts.

As usual, nice dodge about ignoring the real content of my prior posts.  So which do you support...Trump or the Constitution.  They're mutually exclusive.


kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 12, 2022 - 8:46pm

 kcar wrote:
 kurtster wrote:

Regarding coups ... No one still here and posting has yet to admit that there was on ongoing coup against Trump his entire term based upon the now well proven and documented phony Russia, Russia, Russia hoax initiated by the Clinton's.  Hell, no here has yet to even admit that the Russia hoax was phony to begin with.  It was used as the justification for opposing and undermining everything Trump. The refusal to admit the Russia hoax was indeed a hoax and used to frame Trump and disrupt his every action is perhaps the biggest reason for his enduring support and retention for giving the benefit of the doubt by his supporters.  
Kcar, you've never accepted the real story about relations between Russia and the Trump campaign. Read the conclusions of the bipartisan Senate Committee:

A Collusion Reading Diary: What Did the Senate Intelligence Committee Find?

This is (report was so) long (ago), so to save time you should check out the 10-point conclusion at the end of the piece. not read it.  So many new facts have been released in the two years since and some within the past month due to FOIA requests.  Material denied to the Senate Intelligence Committee.
 
https://www.lawfareblog.com/co...
 
Fixed some things for you.  Just because Sussman was acquitted does not mean this is all over, case closed as you put forth earlier.  While most will walk, the story will be told in open court in broad daylight for all to see.

To the broader point.  I offered an explanation of the POV of likely some 50 million voters out there for you all to consider since I doubt that this has been presented to very many of you, if at all.  You all may dispute and debate the validity of this POV but it does nothing to change the fact that it exists.  Sooner or later you all will have to recognize it in order to move forward.  Until then your MSN narrative POV is 

To rgio:  One coup is ok but another isn't ?
kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Jun 12, 2022 - 2:06pm

 kurtster wrote:

Regarding coups ... No one still here and posting has yet to admit that there was on ongoing coup against Trump his entire term based upon the now well proven and documented phony Russia, Russia, Russia hoax initiated by the Clinton's.  Hell, no here has yet to even admit that the Russia hoax was phony to begin with.  It was used as the justification for opposing and undermining everything Trump.

The refusal to admit the Russia hoax was indeed a hoax and used to frame Trump and disrupt his every action is perhaps the biggest reason for his enduring support and retention for giving the benefit of the doubt by his supporters.  


Kurt,

Was Trump's call to Raffensperger a hoax? Trump called on Raffensperger to vacate Georgia's legitimate and final election results:



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik...–Raffensperger_phone_call

"According to the publicly released recording of the call and reports made by multiple news agencies, Trump attempted to pressure the Secretary into "finding him votes", despite being repeatedly told that there was no electoral error."


 "Prior to the call to Raffensperger, Trump spoke repeatedly to state and local officials in at least three states in which he had lost, urging them to recount votes, throw out some ballots, or replace the Democratic slate of electors with a Republican slate."


The January 6 insurrection was the final attempt to overthrow the election results and prevent the legitimate and peaceful transfer of presidential authority. The insurrection was a continuation of Trump's efforts via phone calls to wipe out the legitimate election results in key states that he lost. 

Let's stop pretending that Trump never committed criminal and impeachable acts. 



Kurt, you've never accepted the real story about relations between Russia and the Trump campaign. Read the conclusions of the bipartisan Senate Committee:

A Collusion Reading Diary: What Did the Senate Intelligence Committee Find?

This is long, so to save time you should check out the 10-point conclusion at the end of the piece.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/co...
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