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black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male

Posted: Dec 5, 2008 - 11:09am
trekhead wrote: We're taking back Christmas. This Time —- Its Seasonal! Ha! nice.

rachlan

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Location: nyc
Gender: Female

Posted: Dec 5, 2008 - 9:55am

BillnDollarBaby wrote:

This reminded me of a story... something that happened to me during my days in retail.
I wished a customer a happy holidays as he was leaving the register. He leaned in conspiratorily and let me know that it was okay for me to wish him a merry christmas. He was a christian too. I actually did a really good job of squelching my laugh. I hate when people assume anything. And whispered back that if he was, well merry christmas but since I was pagan would he wish me a blessed yule? I thought he was going to shit, right then and there. Poor bugger. The end of year shopping season always pushed me to my limits. Thankfully I had bosses with really good senses of humor - we actually were encouraged to play with the customers a bit.

Good story!

hippiechick

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Location: topsy turvy land
Gender: Female

Posted: Dec 5, 2008 - 8:38am

BillnDollarBaby wrote:

I found it really funny a few years back when a few of the more conservative christian groups were up in arms about retailers using holidays instead of christmas in advertising. All I could think was, "You want baby Jesus affiliated with that commercial nonsence? Really?" Good on you for obviously knowing the difference between true christmas and the commercial christmas that retailers have encouraged.

This reminded me of a story... something that happened to me during my days in retail.
I wished a customer a happy holidays as he was leaving the register. He leaned in conspiratorily and let me know that it was okay for me to wish him a merry christmas. He was a christian too. I actually did a really good job of squelching my laugh. I hate when people assume anything. And whispered back that if he was, well merry christmas but since I was pagan would he wish me a blessed yule? I thought he was going to shit, right then and there. Poor bugger. The end of year shopping season always pushed me to my limits. Thankfully I had bosses with really good senses of humor - we actually were encouraged to play with the customers a bit.

Personally, I use happy holidays, not because I am offended or care one way or the other but because you never know what the customer is buying presents for... Kwanza, Chanukah, etc.

I don't care what the clerks wish me. I don't celebrate any of those holidays, but why should I make them suffer because of it. I joke with my kids that they get "End of the Year Appreciation Gifts."

Painted_Turtle

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Location: Land of Laughing Waters
Gender: Female

Posted: Dec 5, 2008 - 8:26am

callum wrote:

It amuses me slightly to see non-christians trumpet facts that Christmas never was Christmas etc. Someone at uni brought this up to me as if I should be personally afronted and shocked. I don't think it matters when you have a celebration - just that there is one. Mid winter is a damm good time for a party; it would be depressin otherwise!

Yes!!! Which is why I'm celebrating the Winter Solstice on the 21st. I love the potluck party, music and the bonfire. We like to jump over it.

(former member)

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Posted: Dec 5, 2008 - 5:35am

black321 wrote:

As someone who truly CELEBRATES Christmas, I'm glad folks no longer call it the Christmas season, and replace it with sayings like "Happy Holidays". There are plenty of us who still get the "true meaning of Christmas." So let it morph into the holiday shopping season, and thereby allow us to take Christmas back and remove it from the mass consumerism dictated by the machine of industry.

(former member)

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Posted: Dec 5, 2008 - 5:28am

callum wrote:

It amuses me slightly to see non-christians trumpet facts that Christmas never was Christmas etc. Someone at uni brought this up to me as if I should be personally afronted and shocked. I don't think it matters when you have a celebration - just that there is one. Mid winter is a damm good time for a party; it would be depressin otherwise!

The commandeering of the non-christian holidays was simply a marketing tool used by early christian missionaries. People were more likely to convert if they didn't have to give up their traditions and fun. Its quite a fascinating thing, the true origins of most christian holidays. Sadly, very few people actually know their own religious history and they freak out when told this information.

trekhead

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Location: Set On FUN!!!
Gender: Male

Posted: Dec 5, 2008 - 4:40am
callum wrote: It amuses me slightly to see non-christians trumpet facts that Christmas never was Christmas etc. Someone at uni brought this up to me as if I should be personally afronted and shocked. I don't think it matters when you have a celebration - just that there is one. Mid winter is a damm good time for a party; it would be depressin otherwise! Amen, Brutha!

callum

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Location: its wet, windy and chilly....take a guess
Gender: Male

Posted: Dec 5, 2008 - 3:58am
It amuses me slightly to see non-christians trumpet facts that Christmas never was Christmas etc. Someone at uni brought this up to me as if I should be personally afronted and shocked. I don't think it matters when you have a celebration - just that there is one. Mid winter is a damm good time for a party; it would be depressin otherwise!

trekhead

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Location: Set On FUN!!!
Gender: Male

Posted: Dec 5, 2008 - 3:40am

black321 wrote:

We're taking back Christmas. This Time —- Its Seasonal!

Painted_Turtle

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Location: Land of Laughing Waters
Gender: Female

Posted: Dec 4, 2008 - 11:41am

hippiechick wrote:

I don't think that Santa sets a god example for the workers of the world. He holds little people (children) hostage, making them work like slaves, feeds them a very un-nourishing consisting mostly of sugar, and takes almost all the credit for Christmas cheer.

They aren't children, they're Nisse...magic elves. They get all the cookies and milk Santa collects for them at night. That's why they work, they're NOT slaves. Its a trade-off. there are two kinds of Norwegian Nisse

The Norwegain Fjøsnisse is in charge of the reindeer and the Julenisse is sort of like santa claus and delivers the presents to kids.

(former member)

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Gender:

Posted: Dec 4, 2008 - 11:26am

black321 wrote:

Word!

black321

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Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male

Posted: Dec 4, 2008 - 11:20am
As someone who truly CELEBRATES Christmas, I'm glad folks no longer call it the Christmas season, and replace it with sayings like "Happy Holidays". There are plenty of us who still get the "true meaning of Christmas." So let it morph into the holiday shopping season, and thereby allow us to take Christmas back and remove it from the mass consumerism dictated by the machine of industry.

Talalala

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Location: Ãrhus, Denmark
Gender: Female

Posted: Dec 4, 2008 - 11:01am
MusicIsMotion wrote: Mom and I cut consumerism out of our Christmas last year. We cooked good food and spent our first Christmas at my new house. We never exchanged the first gift. It was the best Christmas we ever had. We're doing it again this year. I'm looking forward to it. I did that last year too... board games are always good! :)

Talalala

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Location: Ãrhus, Denmark
Gender: Female

Posted: Dec 4, 2008 - 11:01am
Welly wrote: Are Santa's elves subordinate clauses? Har Har Har!

(former member)

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Gender:

Posted: Dec 4, 2008 - 10:56am
Mom and I cut consumerism out of our Christmas last year. We cooked good food and spent our first Christmas at my new house. We never exchanged the first gift. It was the best Christmas we ever had. We're doing it again this year. I'm looking forward to it.

Welly

Location: Lotusland
Gender: Female

Posted: Dec 4, 2008 - 10:53am
Are Santa's elves subordinate clauses?

Talalala

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Location: Ãrhus, Denmark
Gender: Female

Posted: Dec 4, 2008 - 10:49am

RichardPrins wrote:

The naughty truth about Christmas

"I don't think Christmas has ever been primarily celebrated as a Christian holiday," says historian Stephen Nissenbaum, author of the acclaimed book, The Battle for Christmas.
"Christmas has never been controlled by Christians. It has never been Christianized. They didn't control it when it was carnival and misrule, and they don't control it now that it's corporate capitalism," he says.

I think it is interesting that the historian's name is Nissenbaum and is writing a book about Xmas In German 'Nissenbaum' is just another way to say Nuessenbaum (Nut tree), but if you look at it from a Scandinavian point a view, a 'Nisse' is like a little Christmas gnome. You see them of every type, everywhere in the shops right now.. very cute!

Who/What are Nisse?

A "Nisse" is the name for a small humanlike creature who resembles "Santa Claus" in appearance (and in recent years, takes on the similarity of the modern American Santa Claus). He is not exactly an elf nor a dwarf, but something in between. Nisser can be gnome, ghost or shadow. Nisser are cute little creatures who, according to the Norwegian folklore, are often seen wearing a red knitted cap, usually red, and short grey or brown trousers (like bunad trousers), a knit sweater or busserull and with a long beard. He is the best known creature in Norwegian folklore. Even today, some people believe that he exists.

From Norwegian rural areas there are lots of legends about Nisse's life and duties. The farmers believe that having a Nisse living in their barns will bring them luck and good harvests. If they are so lucky to have a Nisse present, they prepare food for him, especially at Christmas time, and place this in the barns. The food is always eaten up by the next morning! If the farmers take good care of their "personal" Nisse, he will jump in the moving carriage to continue living with the farmer should a farmer purchase a new farm.

The word Nisse is not originally a Norwegian word.Originally nisse was "Fjosnissen" who was a little fellow living somewhere inthe barn with the cows (fjos). The farm Nisse is kind and helpful. He takes care of people and animals all year round. It is very important to be on good terms with the farm Nisse, otherwise strange incidents can occur on the farm. It is wise to remember the Nisse during Christmas and to put a bowl of porridge for him and his family. There is even a Norwegian Christmas song about the rats that are trying to steal his Christmas porridge called "Pa laven sitter Nissen med sin Julegrot" (In the barn the Nisse is sitting with his Christmas porridge).

The Jule-Nisse (Christmas Nisse) is said to come out of the mountains for a twelve-day period during the Christmas season. He will come to a certain farm at that time. If he is treated kindly by the people on the farm, he will remain there for that full-time and then disappear as suddenly as he arrived. The Jule-Nisse sems to love all the animals and is said that he has the power to bring good luck to people and good health to the animals, unless he is treated badly by his "hosts".

If lucky you can see Nisse all year round.

black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male

Posted: Dec 4, 2008 - 10:02am
hippiechick wrote: I don't think that Santa sets a god example for the workers of the world. He holds little people (children) hostage, making them work like slaves, feeds them a very un-nourishing consisting mostly of sugar, and takes almost all the credit for Christmas cheer. they're elves. Go see the movie Elf for some history.

black321

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Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male

Posted: Dec 4, 2008 - 9:59am

peyotecoyote wrote:

"A wink of his eye, and a twist of his head,
soon led me to know I had nothing to dread."
-Twas' the Night Before Christmas, Clement C. Moore

It is also alarming that Santas popular title, "Nick," is also a common name for "the devil."

Old Nick: A well-known British name of the Devil. It seems probable that this name is derived from the Dutch Nikken, the devil..." (Shepard, Leslie A. Encyclopedia of Occultism and Parapsychology. New York: Gale Research Inc. 1991, p. 650).
Nicholas is one of the most common devils names in German, a name that remains today when Satan is referred as Old Nick. (Siefker, Phyllis. Santa Claus, Last of the Wild Men: The Origins and Evolution of Saint Nicholas. Jefferson: McFarland & Company, Inc., 1997, p. 69)

Besides the name Satan, he is also called Beelzebub, Lucifer . . . and in popular or rustic speech by many familiar terms as Old Nick . . . (Oxford English Dictionary) (Skeat, Walter W. Concise Dictionary of English Etymology. Ware: Wordsworth Editions Ltd, 1993, p. 304)

Thomas Nast was assigned to draw this Santa Claus, but having no idea what he looked like, drew him as the fur-clad, small, troll-like figure he had known in Bavaria when he was a child. This figure was quite unlike the tall Dutch Sinterklaas, who was traditionally depicted as a Catholic bishop. Who he drew was Saint Nicholasï¿½ dark helper, Swarthy, or Black Pete (a slang name for the devil in medieval Dutch). . . (Renterghem, Tony van. When Santa Was a Shaman. St. Paul: Llewellyn Publications, 1995, pp. 95-96)

Santa researcher, Phyllis Siefker, echoes Renterghems conclusion:

It seems obvious, therefore, that Santa Claus can be neither the alter ego of Saint Nicholas nor the brainchild of Washington Irving. . . If we peek behind the imposing Saint Nicholas, we see, glowering in the shadows, the saints reprobate companion, Black Pete. He, like Santa, has a coat of hair, a disheveled beard, a bag, and ashes on his face. . . In fact, it is this creature, rather than Irvings creation or an Asian saint, who fathered Santa Claus. (Siefker, Phyllis. Santa Claus, Last of the Wild Men: The Origins and Evolution of Saint Nicholas. Jefferson: McFarland & Company, Inc., 1997, p. 15)

By the way, St. Nicholas did not come down the chimney. It was his fur-clad, dark companion that came down the chimney. One of the reasons his sidekick was called the "Dark One" or "Black Peter" was because he was normally covered in soot and ashes from his chimney travels. The "dark companion" also carried the bag, distributed the goodies and punished the bad boys and girls.

the Dutch tradition goes that Black Pete was the helper of St. Nicholas (Sinterklas)...representing st. Nick's triumph and control over evil....not that Nick himself was a devil. Pete was used b/c St. Nick was too old to go around and give out all the toys to the boys and girls.

hippiechick

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Location: topsy turvy land
Gender: Female

Posted: Dec 4, 2008 - 9:44am
romeotuma wrote: Santa has claws... See, I didn't know this about Santa, because, not being Christian, I have never had an up-close and personal relationship with the guy, although when I was 10, my mom got it in her head that I should have a picture taken sitting on the dude's lap, and it just about scared me to death.

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