It's in the window, and wind, bro.
Idealism sux, and it's better than 100% of the alternatives. What is to be done to change the world? Change the heart. All the while portends a perfectly dangerous and prophetic storm. One which will carry us all to the future. It always was this way. Otherwise something would have been different. Someone would have been different. We abide the world we make, having made it. Right?
Confrontation is profitable. Hatred becoming the gold standard. Hard to remain optimistic sometimes. Welcome to Blunderdome. Catch the wind. Paint the sky. Invoke peace. Preach human salvation. Break the cycle of violence and death.
It's clear that the problem runs much deeper than just misinformation.
Confrontation is profitable. Hatred becoming the gold standard. Hard to remain optimistic sometimes. Welcome to Blunderdome. Catch the wind. Paint the sky. Invoke peace. Preach human salvation. Break the cycle of violence and death.
ok, I started this thread as a tongue-in cheek thing, but I think this is actually the crux of the matter:
Weâre living through a fundamental shift in how discourse is created. Institutions once shaped a shared reality through discourse - imperfectly, but with structure. Now, that reality has splintered. In its place, engagement-driven ecosystems amplify whatever resonates, truth optional.
What weâre witnessing in America is what happens when disordered discourse captures a political party, then the state itself. The Republican Party was the first to fall - abandoning truth for conspiracy, ideology for grievance, and policy for performative outrage.
Now, with its grip on institutions, disordered discourse isnât just shaping politics - it has overtaken those in power, who now govern as if manufactured narratives were reality, eroding the state and democracy itself from within.
Disordered discourse doesnât just govern through those who believe its manufactured narratives - it forces even those who donât to submit. To stay in power, they must either bend the knee to the lies or become the next target of the machine they helped create
America is not unique. Any democracy can fall to state capture by disordered discourse if thereâs no systematic response. This isnât something we can fact-check our way out of - itâs deeper than misinformation. Itâs about power, identity, and the narratives that shape reality itself.
.. which kind of explains a lot of the behaviour by certain individuals on these boards.
On a related note, it turns out that proportional representation has something going for it that I hadn't really noted before.
This is the problem in the US that has enabled the extreme polarisation and Trumpâs power. Once a society does not agree on a shared reality and the principles of the system anymore, its game over.
European countries must be really careful not to lose the shared reality too
European coalition politics is a good balancing force that can counter polarisation to an extent. But no system is fool proof so this requires active work to maintain the basis of democracy, that is people agreeing on whatâs real
Facts do matter though. Denying an unpleasant reality won't make it go away. Much like saying climate change isn't real, we can't just say "trump can't win". The dog has now caught the car and we'll all get to see what happens next.
Politics is fundamentally about civics. It's how we all agree to get along. There has to be some shared reality or it won't work.
Location: At the dude ranch / above the sea Gender:
Posted:
Mar 1, 2025 - 8:49am
NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
ok, I started this thread as a tongue-in cheek thing, but I think this is actually the crux of the matter:
Iâd contend that at least a part of our âproblemâ includes 1) the lack of an understanding of logic and argument as well as the subset of 2) a personalization of the argument - that if someone argues in favor/against then the response too frequently includes âwell, youâre an idiot.â This is not a rejoinder or a real argument, and makes it literally impossible to have a discussion about an idea.
A petition to everyone/no one: argue the proposition, and not the person.
And if you canât do that, well then youâre Hitler.
ok, I started this thread as a tongue-in cheek thing, but I think this is actually the crux of the matter:
Weâre living through a fundamental shift in how discourse is created. Institutions once shaped a shared reality through discourse - imperfectly, but with structure. Now, that reality has splintered. In its place, engagement-driven ecosystems amplify whatever resonates, truth optional.
What weâre witnessing in America is what happens when disordered discourse captures a political party, then the state itself. The Republican Party was the first to fall - abandoning truth for conspiracy, ideology for grievance, and policy for performative outrage.
Now, with its grip on institutions, disordered discourse isnât just shaping politics - it has overtaken those in power, who now govern as if manufactured narratives were reality, eroding the state and democracy itself from within.
Disordered discourse doesnât just govern through those who believe its manufactured narratives - it forces even those who donât to submit. To stay in power, they must either bend the knee to the lies or become the next target of the machine they helped create
America is not unique. Any democracy can fall to state capture by disordered discourse if thereâs no systematic response. This isnât something we can fact-check our way out of - itâs deeper than misinformation. Itâs about power, identity, and the narratives that shape reality itself.
.. which kind of explains a lot of the behaviour by certain individuals on these boards.
On a related note, it turns out that proportional representation has something going for it that I hadn't really noted before.
This is the problem in the US that has enabled the extreme polarisation and Trumpâs power. Once a society does not agree on a shared reality and the principles of the system anymore, its game over.
European countries must be really careful not to lose the shared reality too
European coalition politics is a good balancing force that can counter polarisation to an extent. But no system is fool proof so this requires active work to maintain the basis of democracy, that is people agreeing on whatâs real
ok, I started this thread as a tongue-in cheek thing, but I think this is actually the crux of the matter:
Weâre living through a fundamental shift in how discourse is created. Institutions once shaped a shared reality through discourse - imperfectly, but with structure. Now, that reality has splintered. In its place, engagement-driven ecosystems amplify whatever resonates, truth optional.
What weâre witnessing in America is what happens when disordered discourse captures a political party, then the state itself. The Republican Party was the first to fall - abandoning truth for conspiracy, ideology for grievance, and policy for performative outrage.
Now, with its grip on institutions, disordered discourse isnât just shaping politics - it has overtaken those in power, who now govern as if manufactured narratives were reality, eroding the state and democracy itself from within.
Disordered discourse doesnât just govern through those who believe its manufactured narratives - it forces even those who donât to submit. To stay in power, they must either bend the knee to the lies or become the next target of the machine they helped create
America is not unique. Any democracy can fall to state capture by disordered discourse if thereâs no systematic response. This isnât something we can fact-check our way out of - itâs deeper than misinformation. Itâs about power, identity, and the narratives that shape reality itself.
.. which kind of explains a lot of the behaviour by certain individuals on these boards.
On a related note, it turns out that proportional representation has something going for it that I hadn't really noted before.
This is the problem in the US that has enabled the extreme polarisation and Trumpâs power. Once a society does not agree on a shared reality and the principles of the system anymore, its game over.
European countries must be really careful not to lose the shared reality too
European coalition politics is a good balancing force that can counter polarisation to an extent. But no system is fool proof so this requires active work to maintain the basis of democracy, that is people agreeing on whatâs real
yep.. 
