arighter2 wrote: 
To be clear, I have worked in both union and non-union shops and I currently manage both union and non-union workers (indirectly but as a customer). The issue I have is not with the work (best welder I've ever seen is a union pipe fitter on my job right now), but with the way things get done.  To me, the incentive/reward system is not well structured in a union environment.

I personally don't care how people choose to set up their employment contracts. In fact, I have stated that it would be easier for me in some respects if my direct crew were union. But it doesn't suit their personalities, nor the way we work here. I can't imagine one of my guys saying "that's not in my job description", and I like it that way. 

 dmax wrote: 
Nonsense. It's easier to take pride in your work when you're backed by some security.

I've worked in several union shops and also a lot of non union shops. In my opinion the quality of work in the union shops was superior, but hey, by all means, let's all trash the unions based on stereotypes.

 islander wrote: 
Everyone doesn't become average; they perform at minimal, since there's no reward for anything other than mediocrity.
The standards lower on their own as folks simply try to get through the day, not rock the boat, and not do anything innovative.

Quality falls. Hilarity ensues.

So, as I read recently, all political parties have done an about face and are now arguing over not whether but  how to cut the deficit (Cheney's comments not too long ago "deficits don't matter).  And to the forefront, ideology seems be driving the argument.  Yet, I really don't think our ideology is the problem...we don't need to move more towards libertarian, conservative, liberal or whatever label you want to push.  The center is the only practical place for a successful political environment in the long run...that will serve the masses. 

The problem is not the politics, it's the organization.  It's the supply chain. It's the logistics.  We would all serve ourselves and our country greatly if we put down the economics and philosophy books, and focused on improving the flow of product in our current system.  Modest redistribution of wealth to the poor, sick or old in an economy is not a problem.  Spending money of defense and education is not a problem.  The inefficiencies created while attempting to complete these expenditures is the problem. Take two supermarket operators: Albertson's and Kroger.  Both provide the same basic product, have a similar store format...yet, in 2010, Kroger's sales increased 3.1% and the company grew market share, while Albertson's fell 6% and lost market share.  Why?  Yes their may be modest differences in their quality of produce and meat, but not enough to change the game or create that big of a variance in sales....as they both sell basically the same box of Oreos.  The problem is in the supply chain...how efficiently they get the product from the supplier to the customer.  Albertson's does have other issues like higher leverage and deteriorating stores and infrastructure (sound familiar?), but that is because they never had a supply chain as efficient as Kroger, which was able to use its strong sales to plough earnings back into the business and keep its stores fresh, while maintaining a stable balance sheet. 

It's not about taxes, or what to spend on...but how we manage the spending that is putting us at a competitive disadvantage.   The inefficiencies are the costs we need to focus on, not the products.  If Albertson's saying it doesn't have enough money to buy apples and oranges...it shouldn't stop selling oranges but should look for a cheaper and more efficient way of sourcing their oranges.  And p.s., you find the inefficiency first and then you do the cuts. 

 islander wrote: 
Well said!

 aflanigan wrote: 
...very good aflanigan.  Would you like to erase the board for me?

 cc_rider wrote: 
I actually deal with this a lot. The members of my board have real trouble understanding how/why I value my employees. They generally feel that they are overpaid - "they just sit at a computer all day". It has taken a long time to get them to understand that the value may only be recognized in the critical few seconds when there is a real emergency, but like an airplane pilot, it's priceless at that moment - otherwise you could just put a bus driver in the pilot seat (no slight to bus drivers, but their emergency response skills have a much wider margin for error). But it's also difficult from a worker level. Getting the Admins to understand that a programmer is far more like an artist than a tech (and has to be treated as such) is also a challenge. I think that it's people's nature to overvalue what they do and to undervalue the efforts of others.

 islander wrote: 

exactly.

 Lazy8 wrote: 
Off Topic:
This is the issue I have with unions in general. If you average everyone together, then everyone becomes average. You have no room to reward the high performers and so there is little incentive for them to perform at that level.  I prefer a system where people strive and succeed or fail on their own.

Only a mediocre person is always at their best. 

 Lazy8 wrote:  From another thread, with the same message: we are just 'labor'. Period. Stevedores, creative professionals, engineers, teachers, even doctors: we are all just 'labor'. Management lumps everyone who actually creates as 'labor'. We are considered no different than a factory line worker, in the eyes of Management. We are an expense to be minimized, not an asset to be valued.

 duchamp wrote:

OK, it's hard, at least for administrators (who nonetheless have to evaluate teachers before they get tenure).

It wasn't hard to tell a good teacher from a bad one when I was a student. It IS possible. Instead of fighting every attempt at reform maybe teacher's unions could pipe up with what they think makes for a good, bad, or excellent teacher...other than a union card and time served, that is. But that will require acknowledging that there are differences between them—that it is a skill, not just a task like hod carrying. Teachers aren't longshoreman.

 duchamp wrote:  

Me are glad you pointed that out to I.

 cc_rider wrote: 
There is a National Teaching Certification that is just terrific.  It really separates the wheat from the chaff.

edit//
''....as smart as I...''

always the teacher

 miamizsun wrote:
Spare me, please, the patronizing attitude (if only you were as smart as I, you'd see it, too!)  It's understandable, I guess, that Libertarians look upon themselves as elitists, since they have to contend with the fact that for every one of them there are hundreds of others (educated and uneducated, wise and foolish) who don't believe in what they believe in, but as Mr. Caplan concedes, adopting the attitude "I know better than most people" will not win people over to your belief system.

As to the videos, the second one is from a private home.  Does this mean home schoolers are in on the conspiracy, too?

The first one appears to be some sort of chorus practice, and likely has nothing to do with the curriculum or any nationwide indoctrination mandates.  The kids are presumably coming up with a cute song about the current Occupant to impress their parents, much like they might come up with a cute song about Washington, or Jefferson, or Lincoln, or John Smith and Pocahontas, or Squanto.

I suppose this is further proof of the statism indoctrination conspiracy (note the waving flag and the clear blue sky behind the white Capitol buidling.  Blatant promotion of statism!!!!):

 cc_rider wrote: 
That is good but over the last 10-15 years anyways the teacher's unions main goal is self preservation of the union.

 Lazy8 wrote: 
As to merit pay, it is hard to set the ruberic, especially with many transient students in the schools. The student may have only been in your class a short while or was passed to the next level without having the knowledge.  The current Florida assessment test FCAT has stopped most of the 'just pass them'' policy.

Teachers in my state can surely get fired. See previous post. The Union will represent you if you are unduly fired or sued.  I was in the Union.

 Lazy8 wrote:  That's a good point. I can also see how unions could flip the equation, by providing training, mentoring programs, maybe even some sort of union certification standards. Like, say, the IBEW, which provides apprenticeship programs and licensing and such. In many ways it could increase the power of the union, by committing to a certain level of training and competence. And provide better services to the students, which of course is the ultimate goal.

 hippiechick wrote: 
That is why tenure is important.  Without it, teaching the status quo is what keeps your job safe. Florida did away with life time tenure a good while a go. A teacher with tenure  can still get fired, but there has to be just cause. Without tenure, a teacher is simply not renewed.

I remember part of my teacher oath included teaching what you know to be true and accurate as befits your specialty.Sometimes that goes cross grain with the status quo.

 cc_rider wrote:

Yes: teacher's unions. By refusing to acknowledge that there are bad teachers they are refusing to acknowledge that there are good teachers. What you're talking about is merit pay, and they are dead-set against it.