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oldviolin

oldviolin Avatar

Location: esse quam videri
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 26, 2010 - 1:41pm

 fuh2 wrote:

Accidents are circumstantial. Preventable deaths are not.  It was from a Harvard study in August.
 
So, does that mean that preventable accidents lead to circumstantial deaths?

jadewahoo

jadewahoo Avatar

Location: Puerto Viejo, Costa Rica
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 26, 2010 - 12:33pm

 samiyam wrote:

Uh... Beaker, is that you? 
Dammit Stu! STFU or you will blow my cover! 


fuh2

fuh2 Avatar

Location: Mexican beach paradise
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 26, 2010 - 11:39am

 kurtster wrote:

No, just saying that death is always circumstantial.  What was the source of your stat again ?  Missed it earlier.
 
Accidents are circumstantial. Preventable deaths are not.  It was from a Harvard study in August.

kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 26, 2010 - 11:35am

 fuh2 wrote:

SO youre using THIS to justify 45,000 preventable deaths a year if we had an equitable affordabble health insurance for all?

 Are you one of the Putocratic top 1% or are you one of their millions of useful duped idiots?
 
No, just saying that death is always circumstantial.  What was the source of your stat again ?  Missed it earlier.

fuh2

fuh2 Avatar

Location: Mexican beach paradise
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 26, 2010 - 11:28am

 kurtster wrote:

Just sayin' ...
Car Crash Stats: There were nearly 6,420,000 auto accidents in the United States in 2005. The financial cost of these crashes is more than 230 Billion dollars. 2.9 million people were injured and 42,636 people killed. About 115 people die every day in vehicle crashes in the United States — one death every 13 minutes.

In 2003 there were 6,328,000 car accidents in the US. There were 2.9 million injuries and 42,643 people were killed in auto accidents.

In 2002, there were an estimated 6,316,000 car accidents in the USA. There were about 2.9 million injuries and 42,815 people were killed in auto accidents in 2002.

There were an estimated 6,356,000 car accidents in the US in 2000. There were about 3.2 million injuries and 41,821 people were killed in auto accidents in 2000 based on data collected by the Federal Highway Administration.

 
SO youre using THIS to justify 45,000 preventable deaths a year if we had an equitable affordabble health insurance for all?

 Are you one of the Putocratic top 1% or are you one of their millions of useful duped idiots?

kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 26, 2010 - 11:23am

 fuh2 wrote:
 
  45,000 deaths per year is not a big percentage either of the US annual deaths but they would be preventable if we had a decent health care system.    The sociopathic Republicans are guilty of 15  9/11's a year for denying health care to all. Or are you going to justify the 3000 deaths from 9/11 a year too using your stats??
 
Just sayin' ...
Car Crash Stats: There were nearly 6,420,000 auto accidents in the United States in 2005. The financial cost of these crashes is more than 230 Billion dollars. 2.9 million people were injured and 42,636 people killed. About 115 people die every day in vehicle crashes in the United States — one death every 13 minutes.

In 2003 there were 6,328,000 car accidents in the US. There were 2.9 million injuries and 42,643 people were killed in auto accidents.

In 2002, there were an estimated 6,316,000 car accidents in the USA. There were about 2.9 million injuries and 42,815 people were killed in auto accidents in 2002.

There were an estimated 6,356,000 car accidents in the US in 2000. There were about 3.2 million injuries and 41,821 people were killed in auto accidents in 2000 based on data collected by the Federal Highway Administration.
lily34

lily34 Avatar

Location: GTFO
Gender: Female


Posted: Feb 26, 2010 - 11:22am

 Coaxial wrote:

Yeah, I went through all of them and saved about 20 40...Most of them are just as stupid as I am...{#Bounce}
 
and, no, they're not. wait...you're not. NEVERMIND.

Coaxial

Coaxial Avatar

Location: Comfortably numb in So Texas
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 26, 2010 - 11:19am

 lily34 wrote:
 Coaxial wrote:

lily34sez:

you have a full library of these, don't you?? you're like jrzy with the LOLcats!
 
Yeah, I went through all of them and saved about 20 40...Most of them are just as stupid as I am...{#Bounce}

fuh2

fuh2 Avatar

Location: Mexican beach paradise
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 26, 2010 - 11:17am

 fuh2 wrote:
 
  45,000 deaths per year is not a big percentage either of the US annual deaths but they would be preventable if we had a decent health care system.    The sociopathic Republicans are guilty of 15  9/11's a year for denying health care to all. Or are you going to justify the 3000 deaths from 9/11 a year too using your stats??

The REAL Republican Health Care Plan
 



lily34

lily34 Avatar

Location: GTFO
Gender: Female


Posted: Feb 26, 2010 - 11:10am

 Coaxial wrote:

<snipped>

lily34sez:

you have a full library of these, don't you?? you're like jrzy with the LOLcats!

Coaxial

Coaxial Avatar

Location: Comfortably numb in So Texas
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 26, 2010 - 11:08am

 fuh2 wrote:
 
  45,000 deaths per year is not a big percentage either of the US annual deaths but they would be preventable if we had a decent health care system.    The sociopathic Republicans are guilty of 15  9/11's a year for denying health care to all. Or are you going to justify the 3000 deaths from 9/11 a year too using your stats??
 


fuh2

fuh2 Avatar

Location: Mexican beach paradise
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 26, 2010 - 11:04am

 kurtster wrote:

Things are so bad here.  Aw, for the good old days, eh ?
 

  
  45,000 deaths per year is not a big percentage either of the US annual deaths but they would be preventable if we had a decent health care system.    The sociopathic Republicans are guilty of 15  9/11's a year for denying health care to all. Or are you going to justify the 3000 deaths from 9/11 a year too using your stats??

kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 26, 2010 - 10:52am

 fuh2 wrote:

...
That is why we have a health care system that lets 45,000 people die every year from lack of affordable health care which gets more and more unaffordable every year.
 
Things are so bad here.  Aw, for the good old days, eh ?

U.S. Annual Death Rates per 1,000 Population, 1900-2005

YearRate
190017.2
190515.9
191014.7
191513.2
192013.0
192511.7
193011.3
193111.1
193210.9
193310.7
193411.1
193510.9
193611.6
193711.3
193810.6
193910.6
194010.8
194110.5
194210.3
194310.9
194410.6
194510.6
194610.0
194710.1
19489.9
19499.7
19509.6
19519.7
19529.6
19539.6
19549.2
19559.3
19569.4
19579.6
19589.5
19599.4
19609.5
19629.5
19639.6
19649.4
19659.4
19669.5
19679.4
19689.7
19699.5
197019.5
19719.3
19729.4
19739.3
19749.1
19758.8
19768.8
19778.6
19788.7
19798.5
19808.7
19818.6
19828.5
19838.6
19848.6
19858.7
19868.7
19878.7
19888.8
19898.7
19908.6
19918.5
19928.5
19938.8
19948.8
19958.8
19968.8
19978.6
19988.6
19998.8
20008.7
20018.5
20038.4
20048.2
200528.2
NOTES: Includes only deaths occurring within the registration states. Beginning with 1933, area includes entire U.S.; with 1959 includes Alaska, and with 1960 includes Hawaii. Excludes fetal deaths. Rates as of April 1 for 1940, 1950, 1960, 1970, and 1980, and estimated as of July 1 for all other years. 1. First year for which deaths of nonresidents are excluded. 2. Preliminary data. Sources: Department of Health and Human Services, National Center for Health Statistics; National Vital Statistics Reports, vol. 54, no. 20, Aug. 21, 2007. Web: www.dhhs.gov .

Information Please® Database, © 2007 Pearson Education, Inc. All rights reserved.

Deaths, 1900-2005MortalityLife Expectancy



samiyam

samiyam Avatar

Location: Moving North


Posted: Feb 26, 2010 - 10:52am

 jadewahoo wrote:

Just another whack job presenting just another whackaloonie list of blind perceptions.
 
Uh... Beaker, is that you? 

fuh2

fuh2 Avatar

Location: Mexican beach paradise
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 26, 2010 - 10:44am

 miamizsun wrote:
I'm not a Randian, but I have read a few books, (and like every other philosophy) I have taken what I thought was good and applied it to my life.

Here is something written by Peikoff in 1982!

It is in my opinion, parts of this turned out to be so scary accurate it ain't even funny.

Have a look....
Is the freest country on earth moving toward totalitarian dictatorship? What were the factors that enabled the Nazis to seize power in pre-war Germany? Do those same conditions exist in America today?

These are the questions raised - and answered, with frightening clarity - by Leonard Peikoff, Ayn Rand's intellectual heir, in his powerful book The Ominous Parallels.

ominous parallels book cover"We are drifting to the future, not moving purposefully," Peikoff warns. "But we are drifting as Germany moved, in the same direction, for the same kind of reason."

Some of the "ominous parallels" between pre-Hitler Germany and the United States that Peikoff identifies are:

* Liberals who demand public control over the use and disposal of private property - social security, more taxes, more government control over the energy industry, medicine, broadcasting, etc.

* Conservatives who demand government control over our intellectual and moral life - prayer in the schools, literary censorship, government intervention in the teaching of biology, the anti-abortion movement, etc.

* Political parties devoid of principles or direction and moved at random by pressure groups, each demanding still more controls.

* A "progressive," anti-intellectual educational system that, from kindergarten to graduate school, creates students who can't read or write - students brainwashed into the feeling that their minds are helpless and they must adapt to "society," that there is no absolute truth and that morality is whatever society says it is.

* A student radical movement (from the 1960's through the violent anti-nukers and ecology fanatics of today) who are, Peikoff maintains, the "pre-Hitler youth movement resurrected." The radicals are nature worshippers who attack the middle class, science, technology, and business.

* The rise of defiant old-world racial hatreds disguised as "ethnic-identity" movements and "affirmative action."

* A pervasive atmosphere of decadence, moral bankruptcy, and nihilist art accompanied by the rise of escapist mystic cults of every kind - astrology, "alternative medicine," Orientalists, extrasensory perception, etc.

 


 
In short that is the Libertarian philosophy platform.  Libertarianism and Conservatism ARE sociopathic because they put the interests of giant corporations and the Plutocracy above that of the majority.  Corporations ONLY purpose of existence is to make a profit. That mission statement has NO concern for anything else including the people or the environment.

Corporations in the Free Market can grow bigger and bigger until they wield incredible power. They then not only kill the Free Market through MONOPOLY of the market, they also have unlimited capital to influence the public and the legislators.  The end result is Fascism which many argue is what we havve today.

The ONLY way to counter-balance this Corporatist threat to freedom  is to have an equally strong government to keep them in line. Right now the corporations are winnning. They have not only their long-time Republican allies in governemt but they have now essentially bribed most of the Democrats as well. That is why we have a health care system that lets 45,000 people die every year from lack of affordable health care which gets more and more unaffordable every year.

Proclivities

Proclivities Avatar

Location: Paris of the Piedmont
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 26, 2010 - 10:23am

 kurtster wrote:
So many people seem to thow out the message only because of the messenger.  I guess that none of the points has relevance or are worthy of mental note for a perspective of the current times ...

Like so many other points of view, only a waste of  0's and 1's.
 
There are some relevant points, but most of them seem like "shoe-horning" to fabricate parallels between the two societies.  The perspective aspects are interesting, but the piece, as a whole, has a demagogic flavor to me.  The Vietnam War protestors being "the pre-Hitler youth movement resurrected"?


winter

winter Avatar

Location: in exile, as always
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 26, 2010 - 10:12am

 Proclivities wrote:

Oh, okay.  I stand corrected on that point.  Thank you.
 
As for the rest - yeah, kinda loony, IMO. 
Proclivities

Proclivities Avatar

Location: Paris of the Piedmont
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 26, 2010 - 10:09am

 winter wrote:

Actually yes - not sure about the teacup part, but she did designate him her intellectual heir. She was very concerned for the integrity of her philosophy - maintaining orthodoxy, so to speak.

 
Oh, okay.  I stand corrected on that point.  Thank you.

(former member)

(former member) Avatar



Posted: Feb 26, 2010 - 10:03am

teabag is not a term to be used in sensitive company :P 
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