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Index » Regional/Local » USA/Canada » The Abortion Wars Page: 1, 2, 3 ... 14, 15, 16  Next
Post to this Topic
R_P

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Posted: Jun 27, 2022 - 11:37am

 R_P wrote:
It then follows that you can't have IVF anymore either.

Isabeau

Isabeau Avatar

Location: sou' tex
Gender: Female


Posted: Jun 27, 2022 - 10:54am

 westslope wrote:

I'm good with infanticide if a reasonable of the citizenry also approves of infanticide.  But if the fellow citizens oppose infanticide, I am fine with the restriction.

As for erecting barriers to medically safe abortions I strongly oppose for a whole slew of personal, moral, ethical, collective security and economic reasons.  Human capital is so critical in today's economy that the quality of child rearing and education is just as or more important than ever. Presumably wanted, planned children stand a better chance.  



The treatment for An Ectopic pregnancy  is abortion.

The treatment for a Septic Uterus  is abortion.

The treatment for a miscarriage your body won't completely release  is abortion.

If you can't get these abortions, you die.

YOU DIE.



Isabeau

Isabeau Avatar

Location: sou' tex
Gender: Female


Posted: Jun 27, 2022 - 10:42am

Many quivers can be used to fight back against this assault on women's rights. Now the SCOTUS has jettisoned personal privacy and body autonomy, we can move to legislate court ordered paternity dna child support - married or not. If biology dictates forced birth, then it can also force financial assistance.

No one wants baby mama's parents to show up and say, "Hey, I have results your son is this situation's co-producer, and I'm going to solicit the court to force him to help finance this project one way or the other."

Just the fear of that happening to one's son may mean stepping up the sex ed.
It may make young men think twice about unprotected sex.
It may encourage husbands to make that vasectomy appointment.
When testicles are as nervous as ovaries — support, finances and creative solutions are immediate.

Responsibility in the 21st century. It isn't just for girls anymore.

kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 27, 2022 - 9:01am

my last thought on this subject ...

If this was such an important issue to democrats, why did they not pass a law in Congress during the Obama administration when they had a super majority and passage would be guaranteed ?

Obviously, to me, they had more to gain by keep making it an issue than by resolving it.

Have fun.  I'm going back to playing with music.
Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 27, 2022 - 8:31am

It would take a lot, but I’d suggest that ALL women’s health care providers should just go about their business, without modification. What happens next? Prosecution (tying up the courts), imprisonment (really?), loss of license (more likely) and then - what happens to women’s health care in general in the nation? Not that it’s already great.

But just like police have to give up on arresting EVERYONE that takes a toke in states where it’s illegal, if provision of abortion is so widespread that it’s impossible to enforce the law practically…
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Jun 26, 2022 - 10:49am

Demand for Abortion Pills Surges as States Impose Bans
A Moral Philosopher Helps Me Untangle the Questions Beneath the Abortion Debate
miamizsun

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Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 26, 2022 - 6:41am

the chinese people are lucky
they've got the communist party to tell when they can have children or not

and the amazing part? it is all in the name of equality!
and equality is what they say it is...



China says it's restricting abortions to promote gender equality.

Experts are skeptical






Despite its brevity, the line is "a statement of central government policy, and it sends a signal to all of those local level (Communist Party) cadres that this is a priority of the central government," she added.

Abortion has been widely practiced in China for decades. Under the one-child policy, introduced in 1979, millions of women a year were forced to terminate "illegal" pregnancies. The traditional preference for sons also led to a rise in sex-selective abortions, with families often choosing to abort girls. This has contributed to a significantly skewed gender ratio, with the 2021 census revealing there were almost 35 million more men than women in the country of 1.4 billion.

But over the past decade, China changed tack completely as it began to reckon with the consequences of its one-child policy — a rapidly aging population and shrinking workforce that threatened the country's economic growth.To raise its plummeting fertility rate, China enacted the two-child policy in 2016, then the three-child policy in August this year. The government has also launched an aggressive propaganda campaign urging women to have more children, with some local authorities even offering financial incentives for families.




R_P

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Posted: Jun 25, 2022 - 11:52am

French government supports enshrining abortion in constitution
Red_Dragon

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Posted: May 14, 2022 - 2:20pm

lock her up
Red_Dragon

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Posted: May 12, 2022 - 5:35am

Meanwhile, in Spain...
Red_Dragon

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Posted: May 10, 2022 - 10:41am

*bump*
R_P

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Posted: Sep 15, 2021 - 11:20am

Abortion Has Never Been Just About Abortion
Red_Dragon

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Posted: May 17, 2021 - 10:43am

Supreme Court will hear direct challenge to Roe v. Wade
pigtail

pigtail Avatar

Location: Southern California
Gender: Female


Posted: Dec 30, 2020 - 4:57pm



 buddy wrote:


 R_P wrote:

 

Seriously? Do we not  have enough to debate already?
 

Stay outta this one, guys.......lol
R_P

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Posted: Dec 30, 2020 - 2:36pm


kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: May 19, 2019 - 4:33pm

 westslope wrote:
kcar,  You can try to make it as complicated you want.  In the meantime, here is a quote from the wiki-page on the subject of infanticide  that will get you pointed in the right direction:
Anthropologist Laila Williamson notes that "Infanticide has been practiced on every continent and by people on every level of cultural complexity, from hunter gatherers to high civilizations, including our own ancestors. Rather than being an exception, then, it has been the rule.":61
 
 
 
Complicated? It's not complicated. A zygote is not an infant. Nor is a blastocyst or an embryo. In US law a fetus is not considered a human being living outside its mother, with rights independent of that woman, i.e. an infant.
 
This thread focuses on abortion, a medical act typically performed on an embryo or fetus. In the US and other countries legally permitting abortion there are legal time limits tied to gestational progress so that killing approaching infanticide does not occur. I do not believe that legal abortions are infanticide. I define "infanticide" as the killing of an infant, that is a baby living outside of its mother.  
 
 
 

United States

In 1983, the United States ranked 11th for infants under 1 year killed, and fourth for those killed from 1 through 14 years (the latter case not necessarily involving filicide). In the U.S. over 600 children were killed by their parents in 1983.

In the United States the infanticide rate during the first hour of life outside the womb dropped from 1.41 per 100,000 during 1963 to 1972 to 0.44 per 100,000 for 1974 to 1983; the rates during the first month after birth also declined, whereas those for older infants rose during this time. The legalization of abortion, which was completed in 1973, was the most important factor in the decline in neonatal mortality during the period from 1964 to 1977, according to a study by economists associated with the National Bureau of Economic Research.

 
 
 
You wrote
 
 
 
"I'm good with infanticide if a reasonable of the citizenry also approves of infanticide.  But if the fellow citizens oppose infanticide, I am fine with the restriction."


 
So you're good with this (see below)? Really? (Again, from your Wikipedia article). Is this a Libertarian type of opinion? Personally, I'm against the killing of infants regardless of the attitudes of any citizenry. The Romans used to put live unwanted babies on refuse heaps to die. Not my thing, despite Roman acceptance of the practice. Then again, I'm against slavery regardless of popular opinions but maybe that's just me.
 
Let me ask you point blank: do you consider legal abortions in the US a form of infanticide? If you do, I'd like you to provide us with your definition of "infant." If you don't, you might want to start a new thread on infanticide.
 
Not that complicated.
 
The reason I'm a bit het up is some hard-right types in the US are trying to shift popular opinion by terming legal abortions as infanticide. Frankly, I think these people not basing their opinions on logic or biology or medical science. Many of the anti-abortion laws passed at state level are dangerous, excessively punitive and lacking any respect for women's rights.




Modern times

Infanticide has become less common in the Western world. The frequency has been estimated to be 1 in approximately 3000 to 5000 children of all ages and 2.1 per 100,000 newborns per year. It is thought that infanticide today continues at a much higher rate in areas of extremely high poverty and overpopulation, such as parts of China and India. Female infants, then and even now, are particularly vulnerable, a factor in sex-selective infanticide. Recent estimates suggest that over 100 million girls and women are 'missing' in Asia.

Benin

In spite of the fact that it is illegal, in Benin, West Africa, parents secretly continue with infanticidal customs.

North Korea

According to "The Hidden Gulag" published by the Committee for Human Rights in North Korea, the People's Republic of China returns all illegal immigrants from North Korea which usually imprisons them in a short term facility. Women who are suspected of being impregnated by Chinese fathers are subjected to forced abortions; babies born alive are killed, sometimes by exposure or being buried alive.





westslope

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Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: May 19, 2019 - 3:18pm

kcar,  You can try to make it as complicated you want.  In the meantime, here is a quote from the wiki-page on the subject of infanticide  that will get you pointed in the right direction:


Anthropologist Laila Williamson notes that "Infanticide has been practiced on every continent and by people on every level of cultural complexity, from hunter gatherers to high civilizations, including our own ancestors. Rather than being an exception, then, it has been the rule."<3>:61



kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: May 18, 2019 - 5:31pm

 westslope wrote:
I'm good with infanticide if a reasonable of the citizenry also approves of infanticide.  But if the fellow citizens oppose infanticide, I am fine with the restriction.

As for erecting barriers to medically safe abortions I strongly oppose for a whole slew of personal, moral, ethical, collective security and economic reasons.  Human capital is so critical in today's economy that the quality of child rearing and education is just as or more important than ever. Presumably wanted, planned children stand a better chance.  

 
 
You might want to define your terms, especially with an eye to the first paragraph. Do you believe that zygote = blastocyst = embryo = fetus = infant? Do you believe it's acceptable for a person to kill a baby alive for one month outside of its mother's body? What about a six-month old infant?
 
I agree with your second paragraph FWIW. But I don't believe that legal abortions are infanticide. I also think that this slew of anti-abortion laws stem from a desire to control and limit women's freedom. These laws are going to create a major backlash among women voters.
 
 
 

R_P

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Posted: May 18, 2019 - 2:42pm

 westslope wrote:
I'm good with infanticide (...)
 
Different topic.

westslope

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Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: May 18, 2019 - 2:27pm

I'm good with infanticide if a reasonable of the citizenry also approves of infanticide.  But if the fellow citizens oppose infanticide, I am fine with the restriction.

As for erecting barriers to medically safe abortions I strongly oppose for a whole slew of personal, moral, ethical, collective security and economic reasons.  Human capital is so critical in today's economy that the quality of child rearing and education is just as or more important than ever. Presumably wanted, planned children stand a better chance.  
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