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Post to this Topic
Isabeau

Isabeau Avatar

Location: sou' tex
Gender: Female


Posted: Oct 2, 2025 - 10:26am

About the shutdown...Trump’s position is that Democrats must either support his plans to slash important public services, or else he will slash important public services.
islander

islander Avatar

Location: West coast somewhere
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 2, 2025 - 9:48am

 black321 wrote:

one last one on the healthcare issue. Cutting back MA plans was a trend thats been accelerated. 
The reason i support universal care, other than for common decency reasons, is that it is cheaper when done right, if only because of the diversification of everyone in the insured pool and contributing over their lifetimes. Without that, you have only the sickest who want plans, and those who dont still get the healthcare they need via the most expensive point of care - the ER. That typically results in much higher bad debt expense for the provider, who pass it on to the insured with higher premiums. 

UnitedHealthcare, Humana, Aetna scale back Medicare Advantage plans for 2026

The coverage landscape for the privatized Medicare plans will look significantly different next year, giving smaller players a chance to snap up market share but likely creating confusion for seniors.





The entire healthcare system is on a road to collapse. Universal healthcare works in EVERY OTHER MAJOR MODERN COUNTRY.  There are varying degrees of success but they are all much better than we are. We also have the advantage of being able to model the best parts of 30 other examples that have a track record available for review. The only reason we don't is entrenched interests that make profit from the existing system.  

It's fucking absurd that in Mexico, I can bet better / cheaper healthcare for 90%+ of my issues as a walk in customer with a language barrier to my local clinic/pharmacy.

on topic:  Due to the f'd up system we have in this country. Real people will have real problems and many will die without the insanely expensive insurance system we have in place. Subsidies are the only thing keeping a LOT of people in that system. It's morally wrong to toss them out without an alternative. It's despicable to do it to preserve the immense wealth of a handful of political donors. It's crazy that 40%? of the population has been propagandized into cheering this on.  

black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 2, 2025 - 9:01am

one last one on the healthcare issue. Cutting back MA plans was a trend thats been accelerated. 
The reason i support universal care, other than for common decency reasons, is that it is cheaper when done right, if only because of the diversification of everyone in the insured pool and contributing over their lifetimes. Without that, you have only the sickest who want plans, and those who dont still get the healthcare they need via the most expensive point of care - the ER. That typically results in much higher bad debt expense for the provider, who pass it on to the insured with higher premiums. 

UnitedHealthcare, Humana, Aetna scale back Medicare Advantage plans for 2026

The coverage landscape for the privatized Medicare plans will look significantly different next year, giving smaller players a chance to snap up market share but likely creating confusion for seniors.



black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 2, 2025 - 8:39am

 islander wrote:


There are a couple of thoughts munged together here. The ACA should be reworked, but in a country that can't come together on daylight saving time, I don't think that is realistic. It should have been universal health care from the start, but the intransigent republicans made sure that it was nothing more than insurance reform. Then they spent years trying to roll that back (with some success). To say that the shutdown is still on the dems shoulders, because they are holding out to not completely kill the rest of the ACA and by that act take away healthcare from millions of people seems... well technically correct, but completely missing the point.  Yes, making the subsidies permanent is 'new', but we've been paying them for a decade already, and taking it away will remove healthcare from millions of people. It's a policy question, but one with a morality attachment - In one of the richest and most prosperous countries in the world, does the government have any obligation to it's citizens for health care?  We can argue the point, but regardless, I'd say yes, or at least that it lives lower on the chopping block that more tax breaks (also extensions) for the ultra rich, war support for nations committing genocide, and subsidies for a handful of farmers that voted for the guy that killed their business.  

Sure, neither party really gets to carry the mantra of fiscal responsibility, but it's pretty easy to put the records of each party up and compare. Republicans are responsible for the majority of the debt, and now a majority of the spending too.


dont disagree that the chances of reworking any healthcare plan are slim to none...and while dems did make "some" effort to deal with this before the latest...i dont agree with not at least going along with the seven week stopgap - shows willingness to negotiate and if the republicans continue to fight any compromise, they are the clear asses.  

the subsidies were supposedly temp covid relief...and i get the point that because gop already stripped health spending, this is an effort to bring some of that back.
islander

islander Avatar

Location: West coast somewhere
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 2, 2025 - 8:22am

 black321 wrote:

I think the weight of the shutdown, or at least not agreeing to the temporary spending gap, does fall more on the shoulders of schumer and the democrats.
As someone who is for universal healthcare, ACA has been gutted by the republicans, notably the elimination of the individual mandate...it may be time to go back to the drawing board, rather that continuing to prop-up this dead effort. 


The federal government just accumulated an additional $2 trillion in debt over the last 12 months. That's the kind of debt surge America usually racks up in wartime or during major national emergencies. But today, as Republicans and Democrats engage in another budget-driven shutdown drama, we are not at war. There is no pandemic. The economy is humming. And another shutdown is happening. Yet it will solve nothing about the fact that the political class is burning through money at a pace that would make former President Franklin D. Roosevelt's war cabinet blush.

Even if President Donald Trump collects every dollar of his "emergency" tariffs, the federal debt-to-gross-domestic-product (GDP) ratio would still climb above 124 percent by 2035. Remember that most of that revenue is paid by Americans, not foreigners—and that the tariffs' growth-dampening effects offset much of the revenue in the first place.

Democrats, for their part, are pushing back by demanding even more permanent spending. Senate Democrats just blocked a clean continuing resolution to simply carry forward former President Joe Biden's spending levels from December 2024. As a result, the government is shut down. Why? To leverage the threat, and now the pain, of a shutdown into $1.5 trillion in new entitlements, including making Obamacare emergency subsidy expansions permanent.

Both parties are guilty. Republicans borrow recklessly and pretend tariffs or efficiency "savings" will square the books. Democrats demand still more entitlements, paid for with money we don't have. They use brinkmanship as a distraction, turning the most basic government housekeeping into hostage drama.

That's not reform. It doesn't shrink government. It doesn't impose discipline. It wastes more money while the unchecked growth of entitlement and subsidy programs goes unaddressed. The resolution carrying forward Biden's high spending numbers for seven weeks was far from ideal. But it was the least bad option: It would have avoided a shutdown, bought time, and not added new entitlements.

https://reason.com/2025/10/02/...








There are a couple of thoughts munged together here. The ACA should be reworked, but in a country that can't come together on daylight saving time, I don't think that is realistic. It should have been universal health care from the start, but the intransigent republicans made sure that it was nothing more than insurance reform. Then they spent years trying to roll that back (with some success). To say that the shutdown is still on the dems shoulders, because they are holding out to not completely kill the rest of the ACA and by that act take away healthcare from millions of people seems... well technically correct, but completely missing the point.  Yes, making the subsidies permanent is 'new', but we've been paying them for a decade already, and taking it away will remove healthcare from millions of people. It's a policy question, but one with a morality attachment - In one of the richest and most prosperous countries in the world, does the government have any obligation to it's citizens for health care?  We can argue the point, but regardless, I'd say yes, or at least that it lives lower on the chopping block that more tax breaks (also extensions) for the ultra rich, war support for nations committing genocide, and subsidies for a handful of farmers that voted for the guy that killed their business.  

Sure, neither party really gets to carry the mantra of fiscal responsibility, but it's pretty easy to put the records of each party up and compare. Republicans are responsible for the majority of the debt, and now a majority of the spending too.
black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 2, 2025 - 6:59am

I think the weight of the shutdown, or at least not agreeing to the temporary spending gap, does fall more on the shoulders of schumer and the democrats.
As someone who is for universal healthcare, ACA has been gutted by the republicans, notably the elimination of the individual mandate...it may be time to go back to the drawing board, rather that continuing to prop-up this dead effort. 


The federal government just accumulated an additional $2 trillion in debt over the last 12 months. That's the kind of debt surge America usually racks up in wartime or during major national emergencies. But today, as Republicans and Democrats engage in another budget-driven shutdown drama, we are not at war. There is no pandemic. The economy is humming. And another shutdown is happening. Yet it will solve nothing about the fact that the political class is burning through money at a pace that would make former President Franklin D. Roosevelt's war cabinet blush.

Even if President Donald Trump collects every dollar of his "emergency" tariffs, the federal debt-to-gross-domestic-product (GDP) ratio would still climb above 124 percent by 2035. Remember that most of that revenue is paid by Americans, not foreigners—and that the tariffs' growth-dampening effects offset much of the revenue in the first place.

Democrats, for their part, are pushing back by demanding even more permanent spending. Senate Democrats just blocked a clean continuing resolution to simply carry forward former President Joe Biden's spending levels from December 2024. As a result, the government is shut down. Why? To leverage the threat, and now the pain, of a shutdown into $1.5 trillion in new entitlements, including making Obamacare emergency subsidy expansions permanent.

Both parties are guilty. Republicans borrow recklessly and pretend tariffs or efficiency "savings" will square the books. Democrats demand still more entitlements, paid for with money we don't have. They use brinkmanship as a distraction, turning the most basic government housekeeping into hostage drama.

That's not reform. It doesn't shrink government. It doesn't impose discipline. It wastes more money while the unchecked growth of entitlement and subsidy programs goes unaddressed. The resolution carrying forward Biden's high spending numbers for seven weeks was far from ideal. But it was the least bad option: It would have avoided a shutdown, bought time, and not added new entitlements.

https://reason.com/2025/10/02/...






Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar

Location: Gilead


Posted: Oct 1, 2025 - 6:32pm


R_P

R_P Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 1, 2025 - 4:50pm


Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar

Location: Gilead


Posted: Oct 1, 2025 - 3:26pm


Proclivities

Proclivities Avatar

Location: Paris of the Piedmont
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 1, 2025 - 11:22am

 R_P wrote:

MAGA math/meth


Yes - meth/math. "Trillions" is a ten-year possible projection if unchanged; yet he keeps saying it as if it's already happened. Estimated tariff revenue for September was about $30 billion; I guess that's what was just "found" on the "tariff shelf" by some unnamed "financial guy". Paid by American importers and consumers.
R_P

R_P Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 1, 2025 - 10:48am

MAGA math/meth

miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3283.1 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 1, 2025 - 4:37am

i have questions
#shutnado
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar

Location: Gilead


Posted: Sep 30, 2025 - 10:35am


Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar

Location: Gilead


Posted: Sep 29, 2025 - 7:45am


haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 22, 2018 - 3:27pm

 cc_rider wrote:

Largest-to-smallest, or smallest-to-largest. Anything else is madness.

I tend to use '23-JAN-2018' to eliminate confusion. Throws auto-readers for a loop though.

 
I like to sort ascending properly.
miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3283.1 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 22, 2018 - 3:27pm

well that didn't last long...
cc_rider

cc_rider Avatar

Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 22, 2018 - 3:20pm

 haresfur wrote:

2018-01-23

It's the only way to fly

 
Largest-to-smallest, or smallest-to-largest. Anything else is madness.

I tend to use '23-JAN-2018' to eliminate confusion. Throws auto-readers for a loop though.
haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 22, 2018 - 1:54pm

 Proclivities wrote:

Do you think they'll change the date formatting as well?

 
2018-01-23

It's the only way to fly
Proclivities

Proclivities Avatar

Location: Paris of the Piedmont
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 22, 2018 - 9:27am

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


 
Do you think they'll change the date formatting as well?
ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 22, 2018 - 9:01am




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